You
asked general but widespread questions. I separated what you wrote
into assertions and questions, and this is my response.
"...
does anyone else see some resemblance in the description of the
rapture and the events at the crucifixion?"
I briefly
saw that one of my end times teachers was talking about something
like this, but I didn't pay attention and moved on. However, we must
understand why Jesus went to the cross and, in
both events, there is a catching away.
This ONLY
happened because He went into the heavenly temple and poured out His
blood as a sacrifice for us to fulfill the demands of the law,
to bring salvation by repurchasing humanity back from
Satan, and to bestow righteousness upon all who would accept
this salvation.
"Jesus
ascended into hell to catch up the unredeemed spirits and graves
opened."
No doubt,
Jesus went into hell, but
was “catching up the unredeemed spirits” the only reason He went
there?
Hardly,
but then you should have known that.
Ephesians
4:8-10 NKJV
“Therefore He says: "WHEN HE ASCENDED ON HIGH, HE LED
CAPTIVITY CAPTIVE, AND GAVE GIFTS TO MEN." 9) (Now this, "HE
ASCENDED"—what does it mean but that He
also first descended into the lower parts of the earth? 10)
He who descended is also the One who ascended far above all the
heavens, that He might fill all things.”
If I may
speak freely, this
wording,
“ WHEN HE ASCENDED ON HIGH, HE LED CAPTIVITY CAPTIVE,” makes
no sense.
It implies that Jesus took these captives from one captivity to
another, which He did NOT. Several versions read just like this, but
that does not make it correct.
The
Good News Bible tells
us, "When He went up to the very heights, He
took many captives with Him.”
In a sense, these alternate translations are more explainable. The
usage of the word many indicates that some chose not to go. What
kind of foolishness would motivate a response like that?
Look at
what Hebrews tells us.
“But we
see Jesus,
who was made
a little lower than the angels,
for the suffering of death crowned
with glory and honor, that
He,
by the grace of God, might taste death for everyone.”
Hebrews
2:9 NKJV
While we
must all taste death, the fear is supposed to be gone. If you are
having fears about death, I must tell you that this fear is a demon
working off of a known weakness, and fear is a big problem for most
of us.
Where
did go to suffer death?
Hell. The
book of Revelation shows us that Jesus took the keys from Satan. I am
sure that most perceive Jesus as struggling with Satan, but
having God stand before you, would you fight?
My
wife's father did forward communications in Europe during WW2. He
came home with a German trench knife. Since they did not hand these
collectibles out to the enemy, that tells me that her father had to
take it from at least one of them; that realization gave me a greater appreciation for such a
quiet man.
"I
am He who lives and was dead, and behold, I am alive forevermore.
Amen. And
I have the keys of Hades and of Death."
Revelation
1:18 NKJV
Note
how the NKJV translation uses the terms Hades
and Death.
Death is
the Greek word thanatos and
means death both literally and figuratively.
Since we
never really die, is
it possible that death implies something else, like an eternal
separation from God.?
It is
possible.
While
there are indeed souls lying in Hades, I
contend that there is NO ONE in hell as yet.
Ecclesiastes tells us that the dead lie in silence until the
final judgment;
“For
the living know that they will die; But the
dead know nothing,
And they have no more reward, For the memory of them is
forgotten.”
Ecclesiastes
9:5 NKJV
and
that only
happens at the great white throne;
and NO, not everyone before that throne goes to hell. Read about the
sheep and goats in Matthew 25.
Hades,
on the other hand, is “the
place (state) of departed souls: - grave.” Strong's
Some will
sharply argue that there is a separation even today. In an effort to
respond to this aggressiveness about the usage of the word hell, I
give you Matthew 5:22, which says, “Whoever
says, 'You fool,'
shall be guilty enough
to go into
the fiery hell.” The CEV translation says, “And if you
say that someone is worthless,
you will be in danger of the fires of hell.”
Doesn't
all this smell of road rage?
And if it
is a crime in God's eyes, then we are all guilty.
So the
word you did not see here in the Revelation, and a relatively common
word that the Bible translators used, is hell.
Hell,
is the Greek word geenna,
pronounced gehenna.
“Gehenna,
the basis for the word hell, was a place just outside the walls of
Jerusalem, the valley of Hinnom. This
valley the idolatrous Israelites devoted formerly to the horrid
worship of Moloch, 2Ki_16:3; 2Ch_28:3.
In that worship, the ancient Jewish writers inform us, the idol of
Moloch was of brass, adorned with a royal crown, having the head of a
calf, and his arms extended as if to embrace anyone. When they
offered children to him they heated the statue within by a great
fire, and when it was burning hot they put the miserable child into
his arms, where it was soon consumed by the heat; and, in order that
the cries of the child might not be heard, they made a great noise
with drums and other instruments about the idol.” (Albert
Barnes' Notes on the Bible.) The
place became a trash dump, burning constantly and smelling horrible.
The
name Gehenna or
the word hell are
both indicative of everlasting
punishment.
And everlasting
punishment is also eternal separation from God,
which we see when people are finally cast into the lake of fire,
which burns forever.
However, since
one event changed everything - Jesus and the cross, "hell"
also changed.
What
changed in hell that day?
Remember
the rich man and Lazarus -
the poor Jewish beggar. Both died, and we find that the rich man was
now in torment and Lazarus, the former beggar, was being comforted in
Abraham’s bosom.
This
story is important because Jewish
tradition would
put the rich man in Abraham’s bosom merely because
righteousness and riches went together.
Jesus,
by His words and actions, undid that tradition.
He took
the keys of death, hell, and the grave. In so doing, He removed
Satan’s control and effectively removed the fear of death.
He also
eliminated this split system that we see in the Lazarus narrative.
Why
did that happen?
Because
Jesus became the serpent upon the pole that we are to look upon and
live.
Numbers
21:5-9 NKJV
“And the
people spoke against God and against Moses:
"Why have you brought us up out of Egypt to die in the
wilderness? For there is no food and no water, and our soul loathes
this worthless bread." 6) So
the LORD sent fiery serpents among the people, and they bit the
people; and many of the people of Israel died.
7) Therefore the people came to Moses, and said, "We have
sinned, for we have spoken against the LORD and against you; pray to
the LORD that He take away the serpents from us." So Moses
prayed for the people. 8) Then the LORD said to Moses, "Make a
fiery serpent, and set it on a pole; and it shall be that everyone
who is bitten when he looks at it, shall live." 9) So
Moses made a bronze serpent, and put it on a pole; and so it was, if
a serpent had bitten anyone, when he looked at the bronze serpent, he
lived.”
The
effect is that when
someone dies now, having already looked upon Jesus, they are either
in the arms of Jesus or merely asleep and know nothing.
All time
changed at this event, and
the potential for all to have life in Him became available that day.
Death is
no longer to be feared.
So these
levels or separations that people see in hell were removed. Mind you,
much of this so-called understanding about hell came from the author
Dante Alighieri and his book The Inferno, where he, as the author,
created stages and levels in hell, where he put corrupt politicians
and leaders from the Catholic church.
"Jesus
ascended into hell to
catch up the unredeemed spirits..."
I am sure
you mean to say descended, but that is irrelevant. Since Jesus
preached to the captives, one might assume that everyone there was a
captive, but we
cannot yet make the assumption that anyone there was redeemed.
I came to
this understanding because there
was no one in Christ,
seeing as
He had not gone up to the Father yet, and the Holy Spirit had not
come. And though it seems too simplistic, I will say it, there was no
church to make converts.
So,
does the rich man, who was now in torment, fall under the category of
unredeemed?
The
answer to this question must have driven the Jewish audience crazy. I
suspect that was a part of Jesus' intent. If someone fell under the
category of redeemed, I would imagine the beggar Lazarus was your
man.
But
what about King David?
You
should not be able to give him the righteous award as he was quite
the scoundrel when it came to Bathsheba.
How
about King Saul?
This man
had the Spirit of God on him and lost not only it but his mind as
well.
I
suppose the
point here is our inability to determine who is righteous and
deserving of God's redeeming grace and who should remain under
punishment;
this is precisely why the forgiveness of sin is extended to everyone,
including Saul and Judas (Yes,
I said Judas. I threw him into the mix because I do see repentance in
his words and actions toward the end. Now to say that someone has
unforgivably condemned themselves to hell, 1) prematurely judges that
person, and 2) moves us into the category of being a judge, and that
is NOT our jobs, as all judgment has been given unto the Son,
NOT YOU. Read John 5:22.)
Imagine
what Jesus must have preached to these "captives."
Could
there have been some who turned Him down?
Any
answers we have to this question are pure conjecture on our part,
seeing as we have no definitive answer.
"People
previously dead were alive and walking among the living."
“The
tombs broke open, and the bodies of many saints who had fallen asleep
were raised. After Jesus’ resurrection, when they had come out of
the tombs, they entered the holy city and appeared to many
people.”
Matthew
27:52-53 BSB
Who
were these people?
Perhaps
the answer as to who these people, coming out of their entombments,
is this:
“Jesus
said to her, "I am the resurrection and the life. He
who believes in Me, though he may die, he shall live.” John
11:25 NKJV
We
do NOT know the answer to this question, but what did Jesus preach to
these “captives” who were lying in silence?
The good
news - is that life, freedom, hope, and eternity with the Father are
available, and you can have all that if you will follow me. If it was
life, it would appear that many believed and, therefore, came to life
and emerged from their grave sites.
The first
thing we deal with is the number of people who emerged from their
entombments.
The Greek
word translated as many is
polys, which means great
in magnitude or quantity.
It
is difficult to even imagine, as Jerusalem suddenly became inundated
by people who had previously been dead. (I
also assume it was a localized event, but we have NOTHING to tell us
that it only happened in Jerusalem.)
To make
this a bit more interesting, let's discuss Lazarus, Jesus’ friend
who died. (Read
John chapter 11.)
So many struggle to explain why Jesus waited four days to come and
raise him up. The reason lies in the Jewish tradition says the soul
finally leaves the body after three days. Jesus waited that long to
ensure that these religious zealots could not say that what Jesus did
was easy because Lazarus’ soul was still in his body. As the faith
teacher Kenneth Copeland once said, if you think it’s so easy, then
why don’t you get a freshly dead person and try it.”
“Recently...,
hearing the (“dead in Christ will rise first“), I immediately
thought we who are born again are not dead in Christ even after we
die in flesh.”
Born.
gennao. Meaning: to be begotten.
Metaphorically of God making Christ the center of your life.
Regenerated.
Again: It
is the Greek word anōthen
and
means from above, anew. A second time, once more.
Paul,
writing to the church in Corinth, talks about this transition that
we, as corruptible mortals, must go through. We don’t talk about
this transition because it is death, and death makes people squirm
because they fear death. As I have pointed out, we no longer have to
fear death, so let’s dive in.
Becoming
“born again” does NOT kill the flesh or make sin disappear.
It is like pushing the reset button on your spirit, but you cannot
eliminate that one flawed processing chip. If you could go and buy
another, you would find that they all used that one faulty chip;
therefore, the machine will eventually fail in a similar manner.
So,
assuming that you realize that you were born from above, and are made
in the image of the Father, then you know that this all happens
independent of death.
Look at 1
Corinthians 15:50-54, and you will see things like flesh and blood
cannot inherit the kingdom of God.
Well,
guess what?
If you
are reading this, you are flesh and blood. It would certainly seem as
though these air-breathing bodies cannot inherit the kingdom of God.
So
what’s the workaround?
These bodies
have to die,
and No, that is NOT your job; it is God’s, and this is part of the
MYSTERY that Paul speaks of. As you can see above, we
will be changed in the twinkling of an eye.
Surprise, you will most likely shed this corrupted, mortal body as
you migrate upward. Those dead people, believers, will have already
gone through this and will pass us by momentarily as we put on our
immortality.
I keep
thinking about the guy who died but came back to life. One of the
dominant things he could remember was that he felt a good site better
while he was in heaven.
1
Corinthians 15:50-54 NKJV
“Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the
kingdom of God; nor does corruption inherit incorruption. 51) Behold,
I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be
changed— 52) in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last
trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised
incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 53) For this corruptible must
put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. 54) So
when this corruptible has put on incorruption, and this mortal has
put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is
written: "DEATH IS SWALLOWED UP IN VICTORY."”
Our
being in Christ Jesus is a product of our simplistic faith in Jesus
Christ, and we will never become separated from this life that we
have in Christ, even if it involves death.
Here are
a few verses to help strengthen your knowledge of Him.
Rom_6:11 Likewise
you also, reckon
yourselves to be dead indeed to sin, but alive to God in Christ
Jesus our
Lord.
Gal_3:26 For
you are all sons of God through faith in
Christ Jesus.
Col_1:28 Him
we preach, warning every man and teaching every man in all wisdom,
that we may present every man perfect in
Christ Jesus.
Put
something like the Blue Letter Bible app on your phone and then do a
search for “in Christ Jesus,” you will find a vast number of
passages that may help to assist you in your understanding, and that
will help you hold on to the truth that you, because of your belief
are in Christ, never to be separated.
“…
Who might qualify as dead in
Christ?”
Anyone
who has come to a personal knowledge of Jesus Christ and
died.
Before
the cross, no one could come to a knowledge of Jesus Christ. However,
two people in the New Testament challenge my understanding of how we
know Jesus Christ: Simeon –
the old but devout and holy man, that was led by the Spirit to come
to the temple at the exact moment that Joseph and Mary brought Jesus
for His bris - circumcision. The other person was Anna –
the elderly prophetess. These two spoke of Him to all those who
looked for redemption in Jerusalem. Now, consider that Jesus lived
for 33 more years.
Did
Simeon and Anna die and go to the Father or Hades, the place of
departed souls?
We can
only assume, but it would be a good one. Therefore, until Jesus came
and took the keys from Satan, Hades may have been the holding place
for Anna and Simeon, not to mention a few others that God
pronounced as righteous in the Old Testament.
On the day Jesus showed up in Hades, all that changed as He offered
them a one-way ticket into the Father's arms by preaching to the
captives.
Consider,
if they were righteous, as Jesus was, then Satan holding them there
in Hades would have been an illegal move on his part. If Satan held
them, they were captives until Jesus set them free. At that moment in
time, they became the dead in Christ.
In the
statements above, I focused on qualifications. Now
let's define what it is to be “dead in Christ.”
Search
for the term dead
in Christ;
it only comes up once, 1 Thessalonians 4:16.
“For
the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the
voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And
the dead in Christ will rise first.” 1
Thessalonians 4:16 NKJV
Dead is
the Greek word nekros and
means corpse (literally
dead.) The Word Study Dictionary takes it further and defines it as a
deceased person.
Although
I am not dead now, it is apparent that death is required. Seeing as
life is vital for the work of God. (I am scratching my head as I say
that.) I suspect that even God sees a purpose for our being born, as
it allows for our gifts and free choice to Worship the creator –
God.
But flesh
carries with it a problem, as the Apostle Paul
told us that flesh and blood CANNOT inherit the kingdom of God.
“Now
this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom
of God; nor does corruption inherit incorruption.” 1
Corinthians 15:50 NKJV
This
air-breathing body is corrupted because this body carries a broken
genome that drives our selfish impulses – the impulse to sin. (I
say it this way because it is the only thing that makes sense.) and
Heaven has no corruption in it, which is why flesh and blood cannot
inherit the kingdom of God. So, we, in these bodies, cannot enter
into heaven.
Obviously,
something will change, and we will shed these earth suits. But until
then, Jesus gives us the right to consider ourselves dead to sin. I
get to practice that one daily.
“I
surmise that those pre-crucifixion believers had not been redeemed
until that day.”
It is
often difficult to see some of these characters as righteous. Samson
is called righteous, but he did many things outside of what we would
think was God's will. Turns out it was God's will, but we could
barely see it until the last page of the narrative. Lot was willing
to give his daughters to those pond scum pounding on his door, and
then the angels had to drag Lot and his family out of town to safety.
And what about the guy I consider the biker of the Bible, Jephthah.
God called them all righteous.
When we
use the word redeemed, there is a mountain of religious rules and
regulations attached to it, and there is the assumption that we will
walk away from the situation with a bright shiny face. I can tell you
that I walked away from a few things while dragging my exhausted
behind out of there, and my face was NOT shining. I can look back now
and see how God called me righteous, but few may have picked up on
God's plan and hope for me.
“They
were the dead in Christ that rose first.”
As I
pointed out above, it would seem that people God called righteous
were illegally held captive against their will. Since Christ preached
to the captives, He may have changed their status to being in Christ.
Thank God they were already dead because they got to rise first. I
have nothing more than what I have proposed here to prove that, but
what a great story.
“Where
does that leave us? ...”
You sound
so depressed. If your life is hidden in Christ, then, at the moment,
you are ALIVE in Christ and living inside an earth suit, and you get
to deal with a thousand different feelings, most of which were a gift
from God. Obviously, Satan managed to corrupt those feelings, but
soon, we will shed those suits, put on our new robes, and spend
eternity with the Father.
“The
end will see a battle in which God destroys all his enemies...”
Revelation
19 shows us one of the last great battles, where Jesus comes riding
back with a sword coming out of His mouth, and He is followed by the
saints of heaven. This sword is the Word of God. But notice
something; you never see Him swing it, nor do you see the armies of
heaven engaged in battle. That Word does all the killing and kills
all who choose to fight against Him in seconds.
If
He kills all infidels, who would be left to rule over?
Think
about this. After killing the combatants, we are told that He rules
over the nations for a thousand years.
“And
the nations of those who are saved shall walk in its light, and the
kings of the earth bring their glory and honor into it.”
Revelation
21:24 NKJV)
The New
Testament has the Old as its foundation, so here is a passage from
the Old.
“Now it
shall come to pass in the latter days That the mountain of the LORD's
house Shall be established on the top of the mountains, And shall be
exalted above the hills; And
all nations shall flow to it.
Many people shall come and say, "Come, and let us go up to the
mountain of the LORD, To the house of the God of Jacob; He will teach
us His ways, And we shall walk in His paths." For out of Zion
shall go forth the law, And the word of the LORD from Jerusalem. He
shall judge between the nations, And rebuke many people;
They shall beat their swords into plowshares, And their spears into
pruning hooks; Nation
shall not lift up sword against nation, Neither shall they learn war
anymore.
O house of Jacob, come and let us walk In the light of the LORD.”
Isaiah
2:2-5 NKJV)
He and
those slaughtered saints from the seven years will sit on thrones in
judgment during the 1000 years. How appropriate.
“Then I
saw thrones, and the people sitting on them had been given the
authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been
beheaded for their testimony about Jesus and for proclaiming the word
of God. They had not worshiped the beast or his statue, nor accepted
his mark on their foreheads or their hands. They all came to life
again, and they reigned with Christ for a thousand years.” Revelation
20:4 NLT)
Okay,
that battle is over, and who is thrown into the lake of fire?
Satan –
for 1000 years, and the only two humans there, the antichrist and the
false prophet; that's it.
“And the
beast was captured, and with him the false prophet who
did mighty miracles on behalf of the beast—miracles that deceived
all who had accepted the mark of the beast and who worshiped his
statue. Both
the beast and his false prophet were thrown alive into the fiery lake
of burning sulfur.”
Revelation
19:20 NLT)
“and
binds them a thousand years.”
No one
human is bound by God.
Remember,
all sins were forgiven on the cross, so NO
ONE is being judged for sin. Now, there will be a time of
judgment, but that judgment is based upon what you did with Jesus,
and that happens at the great white throne. This is the only place
and time this will happen.
Fast
forward a thousand years. What
happens next?
Satan is
released and once again deceives the nations. Those poor fools, many
of them, will attempt to surround the Holy City with the hope of
killing us, Jesus and God. God, on the other hand, kills all who join
in this stunt. Those dead people join all the other dead from the
beginning of time who have not gone up in the rapture (this
is where Matthew 25 kicks in),
and some are shown mercy. Those not afforded mercy are then judged
and thrown into the lake of fire, where they are forgotten and
permanently separated from God.
And all
the rest of us join Jesus and the Father in eternity, never to be
troubled again.