Heb 12:7 If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?
endureG5278
2. hupomeno (G5278), a strengthened form of No. 1, denotes "to abide under, to bear up courageously" (under suffering), Mat_10:22; Mat_24:13; Mar_13:13; Rom_12:12, translated "patient"; 1Co_13:7; 2Ti_2:10, 2Ti_2:12 (KJV, "suffer"); Heb_
Total KJV Occurrences: 18
endure, 5 Mar_13:13 (2), 2Ti_2:10, Heb_12:7, Jam_5:11; endured, 3 Heb_10:32, Heb_12:2-3 (2); endureth, 3 Mat_10:22, 1Co_13:7, Jam_1:12; patiently, 2
1Pe_2:20 (2); abode, 1 Act_17:14; behind, 1 Luk_2:43; patient, 1 Rom_12:12; suffer, 1 2Ti_2:12; tarried, 1 Luk_2:43
The NIV puts it this way: Endure hardship as discipline; God is treating you as sons. For what son is not disciplined by his father?
If I am "to bear up courageously" under hardship at then at least there is the hope that there may be no future punishment. That would seem to be the whole problem that I am having here. The Jews lived under the law, but the testator died and God's makes a new covenant with man. Under the new covenant, the one that we are living under, the law is written upon our hearts. That would mean that each one of us knows to do right.
Does any of that mean that punishment for breaking the law goes away?
Are we talking man's laws, which for the most part are really God's design, or exclusively God's laws. God's laws seemed more punitive, as the offender was usually killed.
You have to put things into perspective. Let's assume that we are talking God's law. Christ became the one time sacrifice for sins fulfilling the requirements of the law. Since then God is not judging the world for sins anymore. All judgement was placed upon Jesus. Now how was he punished? This passage says to endure your discipline. He was ridiculed, slapped, beaten, mocked, whipped, scourged, nail to a cross, forsaken by the Father (at least momentarily - he said so.), died, and went into hell. If that was what we deserved who would survive? No one. Truth is, believers are suffering fates like this daily. Does that mean they are being punished for their quiet little sins, or perhaps past sins? I do not think so.
Christ took all the punishment upon himself. An old pastor of mine, while trying to do some premarital counseling with the first wife and I, gave us an example in which his daughter had done wrong. She deserved the spanking with the belt (don't get stupid on me here, that seemed to have been the common method at the time, and a fairly effective deterrent). So he calls her in the room, lays out the facts and the punishment once again, and then tells her "but this time I am going to take the punishment for you" and hands her the belt. She of course could not do it, and broke down crying. His point was two fold. One of which was that Christ did the same for us. We deserved it, merely by birth.
For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.
(2 Corinthians 5:21, WBS)
"All children are disciplined by their fathers. ... God disciplines us for our own good so that we can become holy like him."
Discipline is the Greek word paideia
From G3811; tutorage, that is, education or training; by implication disciplinary correction: - chastening, chastisement, instruction, nurture.
According to the ISBE the radical meaning is that simply of training. In the New Testament the Greek paideia is used with a variety similar to its corresponding Hebrew in the Old Testament. Examples of the fundamental idea, namely, that of “training,” are found in such passages as Act_7:22; Act_22:3, where Moses and Paul are said to have been “instructed,” and 2Ti_3:16, where Scripture is said to be “profitable ... for instruction” (compare 1Ti_1:20; 2Ti_2:25; Tit_2:12; Rom_2:20).
So that I have it straight in my head. I am "to abide under or bear up under my education or training.
If I was training to be an Olympic athlete then I might expect some hardship. Having wrestled for a short time in high school, and I can tell you that training sessions were grueling at times. Although they did not really help me any, they were for a purpose, and that was to make us better.
Here is an interesting thought. I said that the training sessions did not help me much; they did. I got stronger, leaner, and faster. What they did not do was build a confidence in me that taught me I could win. That problem has been with me all my life. What training can do to the outside of the body does not necessarily equate to a reformation on the inside. Suddenly the need for a savior becomes apparent, because man cannot save himself. Yes, there are some deluded people that believe you can. Good luck with that. If you are successful, it is only because God has allowed it for a purpose. If you are not fulfilling that purpose then you are not receiving your training very well.
So the bottom line here is that this is not about God being punitive toward us but attempting to train us. I suspect that what we don't learn down here he will have to take a few extra minutes of our time when we get there. Beside all that scripture establishes that we are in Christ. Is God going to continue training and or punishing Him? NO. The Father loves the Son and has placed all things under his feet, and we are complete in him.
If it does not feel like this is who you are then I would suggest that you continue, in the Word, to abide under training.
endureG5278
2. hupomeno (G5278), a strengthened form of No. 1, denotes "to abide under, to bear up courageously" (under suffering), Mat_10:22; Mat_24:13; Mar_13:13; Rom_12:12, translated "patient"; 1Co_13:7; 2Ti_2:10, 2Ti_2:12 (KJV, "suffer"); Heb_
Total KJV Occurrences: 18
endure, 5 Mar_13:13 (2), 2Ti_2:10, Heb_12:7, Jam_5:11; endured, 3 Heb_10:32, Heb_12:2-3 (2); endureth, 3 Mat_10:22, 1Co_13:7, Jam_1:12; patiently, 2
1Pe_2:20 (2); abode, 1 Act_17:14; behind, 1 Luk_2:43; patient, 1 Rom_12:12; suffer, 1 2Ti_2:12; tarried, 1 Luk_2:43
The NIV puts it this way: Endure hardship as discipline; God is treating you as sons. For what son is not disciplined by his father?
If I am "to bear up courageously" under hardship at then at least there is the hope that there may be no future punishment. That would seem to be the whole problem that I am having here. The Jews lived under the law, but the testator died and God's makes a new covenant with man. Under the new covenant, the one that we are living under, the law is written upon our hearts. That would mean that each one of us knows to do right.
Does any of that mean that punishment for breaking the law goes away?
Are we talking man's laws, which for the most part are really God's design, or exclusively God's laws. God's laws seemed more punitive, as the offender was usually killed.
You have to put things into perspective. Let's assume that we are talking God's law. Christ became the one time sacrifice for sins fulfilling the requirements of the law. Since then God is not judging the world for sins anymore. All judgement was placed upon Jesus. Now how was he punished? This passage says to endure your discipline. He was ridiculed, slapped, beaten, mocked, whipped, scourged, nail to a cross, forsaken by the Father (at least momentarily - he said so.), died, and went into hell. If that was what we deserved who would survive? No one. Truth is, believers are suffering fates like this daily. Does that mean they are being punished for their quiet little sins, or perhaps past sins? I do not think so.
Christ took all the punishment upon himself. An old pastor of mine, while trying to do some premarital counseling with the first wife and I, gave us an example in which his daughter had done wrong. She deserved the spanking with the belt (don't get stupid on me here, that seemed to have been the common method at the time, and a fairly effective deterrent). So he calls her in the room, lays out the facts and the punishment once again, and then tells her "but this time I am going to take the punishment for you" and hands her the belt. She of course could not do it, and broke down crying. His point was two fold. One of which was that Christ did the same for us. We deserved it, merely by birth.
For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.
(2 Corinthians 5:21, WBS)
"All children are disciplined by their fathers. ... God disciplines us for our own good so that we can become holy like him."
Discipline is the Greek word paideia
From G3811; tutorage, that is, education or training; by implication disciplinary correction: - chastening, chastisement, instruction, nurture.
According to the ISBE the radical meaning is that simply of training. In the New Testament the Greek paideia is used with a variety similar to its corresponding Hebrew in the Old Testament. Examples of the fundamental idea, namely, that of “training,” are found in such passages as Act_7:22; Act_22:3, where Moses and Paul are said to have been “instructed,” and 2Ti_3:16, where Scripture is said to be “profitable ... for instruction” (compare 1Ti_1:20; 2Ti_2:25; Tit_2:12; Rom_2:20).
So that I have it straight in my head. I am "to abide under or bear up under my education or training.
If I was training to be an Olympic athlete then I might expect some hardship. Having wrestled for a short time in high school, and I can tell you that training sessions were grueling at times. Although they did not really help me any, they were for a purpose, and that was to make us better.
Here is an interesting thought. I said that the training sessions did not help me much; they did. I got stronger, leaner, and faster. What they did not do was build a confidence in me that taught me I could win. That problem has been with me all my life. What training can do to the outside of the body does not necessarily equate to a reformation on the inside. Suddenly the need for a savior becomes apparent, because man cannot save himself. Yes, there are some deluded people that believe you can. Good luck with that. If you are successful, it is only because God has allowed it for a purpose. If you are not fulfilling that purpose then you are not receiving your training very well.
So the bottom line here is that this is not about God being punitive toward us but attempting to train us. I suspect that what we don't learn down here he will have to take a few extra minutes of our time when we get there. Beside all that scripture establishes that we are in Christ. Is God going to continue training and or punishing Him? NO. The Father loves the Son and has placed all things under his feet, and we are complete in him.
If it does not feel like this is who you are then I would suggest that you continue, in the Word, to abide under training.
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