An essay from Hebroots.com entitled: No Man knows the Day or the Hour.

This is taken, in its entirety, from Hebrew Roots.com. The direct web address is: http://www.hebroots.org/hebrootsarchive/9807/980715_c.html

I happened to find this information mere hours before Rosh Hashana began on Wednesday, 9/20/2017 and it took my breath away for several reasons.

1. I have been trying to convey to believers that Jesus, the Jew, said things that a Jewish audience understood without hesitation. We, on the other hand, really have no clue at all, and part of the reason for that is this false idea that God has replaced Israel with us broken Gentiles.
2. Knowing that Rosh Hashana, the highest of holy days in the Jewish community, was about to take place, and, knowing that it is also called the Feast of Trumpets, I immediately made the correlation with the coming of Jesus in the clouds to gather His church. The time frame closed at sunset on Friday 922/2017.

To be honest I was greatly disappointed to wake up on earth Saturday morning. Does the fact that I am still here mean that the information included here is invalid? Not at all. It might mean we have another year, or it might mean that the creator of the timing and the controller of the clock, has other plans. None the less, we are there, in the ballpark, playing out the last inning. Keep in mind that the seventieth week of years – the time of God's wrath has been on hold for over two thousand years. No worries, no matter what comes, because God is in control.

Ozzie

---

From: Tony Galli
To: heb_roots_chr@geocities.com
Subject: No One Knows The Day Or Hour

NO ONE KNOWS THE DAY OR THE HOUR?

At the Time of the End, the wise shall understand. Dan 12:10

Understanding the expression "No man knows the day or hour" is not possible
by simply taking the English translation literally, because in the book of
Daniel and the Book of Revelation, we are given EXACT descriptions of
timing, relative to KEY events - such as the shutting down of the altar
sacrifices in Jerusalem at the MID-POINT of the 70th week. Dan 9:27

Jesus was asked, "When shall these things be?" Matt 24:3

His answer ties us into a very specific event (The Abomination of
Desolation) which can be measured on our calendars: "When you therefore
shall see the Abomination Of Desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet,
stand in the holy place, (whoever reads, let him understand:)..." Matt 24:15.

[My comment: This takes place 1260 days into the seven years of God's wrath.
That has not initiated yet.]

It is now clear that "no man knows the day or hour" does NOT mean "no man
knows the day or hour" as we read it from a modern-day English perspective.

From his book "Signs In the Heavens" by Avi Ben Mordechai, he devotes a
chapter to explaining what "no man knows the day or hour" truly means from
a rabbinical Hebraic perspective. It is a figure of speech.

The following chapter contains edited excerpts from Avi Ben Mordechai's
commentaries and builds on them aiming to explain that the Holy Bible does
in fact, reveal the "day and hour" or "exact timing" of our Lord's Return.

No One Knows the Day or the Hour?

Christians over the centuries have separated themselves from their Hebraic
roots causing the misunderstanding of key Jewish biblical idioms. An idiom
is also a figure of speech. When Y'shua (Jesus) uttered His famous words
concerning the Messianic Era in Mattityahu (Matthew) 24:26, "No one knows
about that day or hour, not even the angels in Heaven, nor the Son, but
only the Father", He used a common Jewish figure of speech referring to a
specific Jewish Festival. In essence, He was saying, "I am coming for My
Bride on such and such a day! Be watching!" What day could the Jewish idiom
be referring to? Keep reading!

HEBRAIC ROOTS

Y'shua HaMashiach (Jesus the Messiah) was Jewish and lived a
Torah-observant Jewish life. Evidence suggests that He communicated to His
audience in the Hebrew language, in Hebraic ways. What does it mean to
communicate in Hebraic ways? It means to think and talk like a Jew. In
Y'shua's day it meant to speak in the language and idioms of the day. Those
who heard the Lord speak knew what He was saying and usually what He was
alluding to unless He was speaking in parables, which had their own
analogies. Of course, today's generation of believers struggles to
understand His words and concepts. Speaking, thinking and acting like the
Jewish Rabbi He was helped His mission in bringing the gospel message to
"the lost sheep of the house of Israel" (Matt 15:24).

Y'shua was quoted in Mattityahu (Matthew) 8:11 as saying: "I say to you
that many will come from the east and the west, and will take their places
at the feast with Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob in the Kingdom of Heaven". Since we are talking about Jewish idioms, have you ever considered the meaning of these words? Specifically, our Lord used and confirmed common Jewish ideas about the Day of the Lord - the millennium - and its relation to the Feast of Sukkot (Tabernacles) in Z'kharyah 14. In speaking, Y'shua referred to the Festival and its traditional guests of honour, Avraham, Yitzchak and Ya'acov, called the ushpizin (uoosh-piz-zin) or seven shepherds (exalted
guests), invited into every succah (tabernacle) at the Feast of Sukkot in
the fall of the year. The seven shepherds in descending order are
1. Avraham (Abraham), 2. Yitzchak (Isaac), 3. Ya'acov (Jacob), 4. Mosheh
(Moses), 5. Aaron, 6. Yosef (Joseph) and 7. HaMelech David (King David).
By mentioning the feast and three of the seven shepherds, His audience
immediately understood the allusion to the Messianic age - "Millennium" or
"Day" of the Lord.

"For the Son of Man came to seek and to save what was lost" (Luke 19:10).
Again, in this simplistic phrase Y'shua, the Son of Miriyam and Yosef,
spoke of two things: His Deity (by calling Himself the subject of the
prophet Dani'el's vision) and His mission (by calling Himself the One God
Who spoke to Mosheh on Mount Sinai) as it is written in Dani'el and
Yechezk'el (Ezekiel):

In my vision at night I looked, and there before me was One like a Son of
Man, coming with the clouds of Heaven. He approached the Ancient of Days
and was led into His presence (Dani'el 7:13-14).

For this is what the Sovereign LORD says: I Myself will search for My sheep
and look after them (Yechezk'el-Ezekiel 34:11ff).

In the Gospel narrative of Luke 23:31, Y'shua said: "For if men do these
things when the tree is green, what will happen when it is dry?" In this
verse Y'shua points His audience, who had portions of the writings of the
Prophets memorized, to the verses in Yechezk'el (Ezekiel) 20:45 to 21:7.
Without question, Y'shua's hearers knew He referred to Chevlei HaMashiach
or Ya'acov's Trouble in the Great Tribulation and warned His audience that
what they do to Him in hardness of heart now, God will do to the nation in
judgment later.

Y'shua's encounter with Natan'el (Nathanael) is recorded in Yochanan (John)
1:47-48: When Jesus saw Nathanael approaching, He said of him, "Here is a
true Israelite, in whom there is nothing false". "How do You know me?"
Nathanael asked. Jesus answered, "I saw you while you were still under the
fig tree before Philip called you".

Again, our Lord used a strong figure of speech pointing to a widely taught
Jewish expectation concerning the resurrection and the millennium. In
brief, He told Natan'el that he will be alive on the Last Day to inherit
the land promised to Avraham (Bereshith-Genesis 17:8). From Y'shua's words,
Natan'el understood he would participate in the resurrection since "that
Day" was yet future. This is understood in the first-century Jewish figure
of speech, "I saw you while you were still under the fig tree", which
refers to life and study of Torah in the millennium (Midrash Rabbah
Genesis, Rabbah Song of Songs). Y'shua also told Natan'el that he is like
righteous Avraham who received his reward for trusting God. This is
understood because of the phrase, "Here is a true Israelite, in whom there
is nothing false". The millennial concept of the fig tree is found
throughout the Tanach including Z'kharyah 3:10: "In that day each of you
will invite his neighbor to sit under his vine and fig tree", declares the
LORD Almighty. For this reason, Natan'el responded emphatically to Y'shua
and His words, saying: "Rabbi, you are the Son of God; You are the King of
Israel!"

God through HaMashiach Y'shua spoke to the Jews in many portions and in
many ways (Hebrews 1:1-2) relying upon known figures of speech, common
expectations and direct thoughts from Talmudic and Pharisaic teachings. The
concepts I addressed only scratch the surface, so-to-speak. Every phrase
and word from the mouth of the Lord meant something to His audience. He
spoke with precision. With that as a basis, let us go on to one of the most
interesting Jewish figures of speech misunderstood by the Church over the
years. It concerns Y'shua's phrase, "No one knows about that day or hour,
not even the angels in Heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father". In
context, He refers to the home-taking of His bride, the beginning of the
Messianic era and His millennial reign as King of kings over all the earth.
To understand this concept, we begin by examining its foundation.

ROSH HASHANAH

Chapter Five described the annual Jewish Festival of Trumpets or Rosh
HaShanah - the first day of the seventh month. A few themes linked to this
Jewish festival is resurrection, repentance, kingship, coronation and a
marriage feast. This chapter shows another theme and convincing proof that
Rosh HaShanah is not only the start of "The Day of the Lord" (Millennium,)
but is also the day of the resurrection! It has to do with the moon and its
29-day cycle of renewal.

In this period of slightly less than 30 days, the moon goes from darkness
to light and back to darkness again. This is not a haphazard occurrence
attributed to evolution or science. God planned it for many reasons, one
being as a picture of resurrection and renewal. With each cycle of nearly
30 days the ancient rabbis understood that the moon was being reborn or
"born again" (Sefard siddur, Mussaf for Shabbat and Shabbat Rosh Chodesh,
p. 509 and 646-648).

NEW MOON

In Y'shua's day, the moon was so important that a Jewish festival was
proclaimed at the beginning of every month (Talmud Tractate Chaggigah 17b;
Shavuot 10a; Arachin 10b). This was called the New Moon Festival and in the
B'rit Chadashah, Rabbi Sha'ul (Paul) makes note of it (Colossians 2:16).
Even in the Tanach, King David provoked King Sha'ul (Saul) over it (1
Shmu'el-Samuel 20:5). In the coming millennium, the gate of the inner court
of the Temple facing east shall be opened on the new moon
(Yechezk'el-Ezekiel 46:1). And finally, in the millennium all nations will
celebrate the New Moon festival every month (Yeshayahu-Isaiah 66:23). It is
obvious from the Hebrew Scriptures that in the millennium God has no plans
to do away with His system.

Since it is so important, exactly what is a new moon? It is the opposite of
a full moon. Every month the moon goes through a complete cycle of renewal
called Rosh Chodesh, the head or beginning of the renewed month. Twelve
times a year on Rosh Chodesh, the moon always starts off with its disk
being very dark to the naked eye. Over the course of 15 days, it gets
brighter and brighter until it finally reaches a full white-faced disk or
full moon. Over the next 15 days, it becomes darker and darker and finally
becomes invisible to the naked eye again.

The ancient rabbis saw a great lesson in this. Just as the moon has no
light of its own but receives its light from the sun, so we too have no
light of our own and must receive it from God. As the moon goes through a
near 30-day cycle of dark to light to dark, so we need constant spiritual
renewal and repentance. Like the moon, we too must be reborn or "born
again" into HaMashiach and constantly renewed through repentance. This is
why God called it a faithful witness in the sky (Mizmor-Psalm 89:37).

If the moon is so important to God, why do we pay so little attention to
it? We have lost touch with God's faithful witness in the sky. But Y'shua
and the people of His day never lost touch with it. And as I previously
noted, not only was the new moon necessary for the Jewish calendar, it was
also a monthly festival celebrated with a feast fit for a king! So, when
Y'shua said His famous words in Mattityahu-Matthew 24:36, it had
far-reaching implications. Here are the words of Y'shua in a few different
translations:

But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of
heaven, but my Father only. (KJV)

No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the
Son, but only the Father. (NIV) But of that day and hour knoweth no one,
not even the angels of heaven, neither the Son, but the Father only. (ASV)
About the exact time, however, and the hour, none knows - not even the
messengers of Heaven; but My Father alone. (Fenton Modern English
Translation)

Failing to think like Y'shua and taking phrases out of Jewish context can
lead one to misunderstand His words. For example, in many places of the
B'rit Chadashah Y'shua knew the future and talked about it openly. In one
instance He warned His talmidim (disciples) about their future saying,
"See, I have told you ahead of time" (Mattityahu-Matthew 24:25). His
context concerned the tribulation, the destruction of the Temple, the rise
and fall of false messiahs (antichrists), etc. If He knew the future in
Mattityahu 24:25, and the context concerns the Day of Trouble, why would He
suddenly speak as though He did not know the future in the same context
just 11 verses later in Mattityahu 24:36? Was He confused? Or was He making
perfect sense in light of the customs of the Jews?

Since the subject of our discussion is the new moon and figures of speech,
realize the phrase, "Of that day and hour no man knows" refers to the
sanctification or setting apart of the new moon. Without this
Sanctification, the Jews had no way of determining God's "appointed times"
or moedim.

Twelve times a year a new Jewish month (Rosh Chodesh) was announced to the
people. We have no system like it today. We look at a calendar to determine
the first of the month; the Jews, however, looked at the moon. This system
of chronology was given to the Jews to know precisely when the Holy
festivals (moedim) would fall (there are still eight of them; seven
appointed times and Shabbat). The moon was the faithful Jewish calendar or
witness in the sky and 12 times a year was sanctified as the basis of the
Jewish stellar calendar.

GOD'S APPOINTED TIMES

Because the moon was so important for Jewish date - setting, the authorities
in charge of announcing the new moon in Y'rushalayim took great care to
ensure the first day of the month was announced on time. To correctly
announce the first day of the month, established by the new moon, was one
of the Sanhedrin's greatest responsibilities. They had to ensure the people
knew when the first of the month began 12 times a year! Therefore God said
to the leaders of Israel:

These are the appointed times of the Lord, holy convocations which you
shall proclaim at the times appointed for them (Vayikrah-Leviticus 23:4).

In other words, God gave the Sanhedrin authority to announce and sanctify
the new moon to the people. Its proclamation on earth was supported by God
in Heaven (c.f. Mattityahu 18:18-20 where the Jewish context supports a
believers' Sanhedrin as seen in Acts 15). As soon as the new moon was
announced, the first day of the month began. Once the beginning of the new
month was established, the festivals and weekly Shabbats for the upcoming
month were sanctified for observance. In Hebrew, those observances have
always been called "appointed times" or moedim, literally "a sacred and
set time". From God's perspective, the appointed times belong to Him
(Midrash Rabbah Numbers, Vol 2.21.25, p. 852) and no one has the authority
to change the celebration of an appointed time. To do so was a serious
matter and great sin. Appointed times had to be kept because of their
Messianic implications.

Further, in Vayikrah (Leviticus) 23:4, notice the phrase, "holy
convocation". The phrase in Hebrew is mikraw kodesh, better translated,
"holy convocation and rehearsal". In other words, God's appointed times are
actually "holy rehearsals" set apart to reflect events in the Messianic
era. God said to the people, "Pay attention! On this day I am going to do
something! Wake-up! The Jews were to know and practice all of God's mikraot
or holy convocations. This is the essence of Rav Sha'ul's (Paul's) words that the
Shabbat, new moons, and festivals, "are a shadow of things to come; the body
of Mashiach" (Colossians 2:17).

Twice a year, in the spring and fall, there were several appointed times
and specific days of holy convocation dedicated to the Lord. The new moon
was the key in being able to fulfill those set times, holy convocations and
rehearsals. For example, when the new moon was announced on the first day
of Nisan, also called Aviv, the people knew when to observe the holy
convocations and set times of the 10th (Shemot-Exodus 12:3), 14th and 15th
(Shemot-Exodus 12:6; Bamidbar-Numbers 33:3), 16th (Vayikrah-Leviticus
23:15), and finally the 21st. In the same way, when the new moon was
announced on the first day of Tishri also called Ethanim, the people knew
when to observe the Holy convocations of the 1st (Vayikrah-Leviticus
23:23), 10th (Vayikrah-Leviticus 23:26), 15th (Vayikrah-Leviticus 23:39),
and 22nd (Vayikrah-Leviticus 23:36). Thus from the announcement of the new
moon to the festival dates which followed, it was only a matter of counting
the right number of days. In a moment you will understand how this applies
to the phrase that Y'shua spoke concerning His coming again.

THE SANHEDRIN AND THE TWO WITNESSES

The Mishnah also referred to as the Oral Law, dealt with the legal
elements of daily Jewish religious life, in Hebrew called Halachah. In the
treasure of the first and second-century Halachah, we find many explanations
to help us understand the Torah, particularly in Y'shua's day since it was
still oral then. In volume two called "moed" or festival, tractate Rosh
HaShanah teaches us about the Sanhedrin and its selection process of two
witnesses who would tell us when the new moon arrived. Once a month the
Sanhedrin discussed when to proclaim the new moon. They did this through
the agency of two witnesses, the element of all legal transactions in
Judaism.

One witness shall not rise up against a man for any iniquity, or for any
sin, in any sin that he sinneth: at the mouth of two witnesses, or at the
mouth of three witnesses, shall the matter be established. Deut 19:15

The men were important because, by their witness, Israel celebrated God's
appointed times. They had to be of good character and were always treated
with great honour. They had special privileges such as authorization to
ride into Y'rushalayim on horseback on the Shabbat to bring the good news
of the new moon festivities! The men had special status because they were
the confirmation that Y'hudah (Judaea)  depended on for the correct timing
of the new month and the festivals.

Rosh HaShanah Chapter 2, Mishnah 5 reads: There was a large court in
Jerusalem called Beth Ya'azek. There all the witnesses used to assemble and
the Beth Din used to examine them. They used to entertain them lavishly
there so that they should have an inducement to come. (The witnesses were
allowed to break the Shabbat travel restrictions for this one purpose lest
they might be reluctant to come and give the essential evidence of the
sighting of the new moon).

Continuing in Chapter 2, Mishnah 6: How do they test the witnesses? The
pair who arrive first are tested first. The senior of them is brought in
and they say to him, tell us how you saw the moon - in front of the sun or
behind the sun? To the north of it or the south? How big was it, and in
which direction was it inclined? And how broad was it? If he says (he saw
it) in front of the sun, his evidence is rejected. After that, they would
bring in the second and test him. If their accounts tallied, their evidence
was accepted, and the other pairs were only questioned briefly, not because
they were required at all, but so that they should not be disappointed,
(and) so that they should not be dissuaded from coming.

In qualifying the witnesses, the Sanhedrin used the following criteria:
They never arrived at the same time.
They were never questioned at the same time.
There were always two new witnesses each month.

In short, the two qualified witnesses usually stood before the Nassi or
President of the Sanhedrin (Jewish High Court) to give account of the
moon's appearance prior to its becoming total dark (Moed Rosh HaShanah,
Chapter 3, Mishnah 1). Just before the moon's disk enters total darkness,
there are tiny slivers of white on the edges of the waning disk. These were
called the "horns" of the moon. Correctly sighting the "horns" (on the
waning crescent) determined the beginning of the new month. Once the two
witnesses were qualified and questioned, if the President (who had
knowledge of astronomy) was convinced their observation was accurate, he
publicly sanctified the start of the new month.

After careful scrutiny to determine the official arrival of the new moon,
the Nassi or President of the Sanhedrin proclaimed Rosh Chodesh with the
words: "Sanctified", and all the people repeat after him, "Sanctified,
sanctified". After the proclamation, the Sanhedrin ordered watchmen on the
nearby hillsides to light fires and thus inform the Jews in all of Y'hudah
(Judaea), Shomron (Samaria), Egypt, Babylon and the galut (diaspora) that
the new month had begun. That started the festival of the New Moon and
counting of the next 29- days to the next new month proclamation.

Again, once the Sanhedrin set Rosh Chodesh, or the beginning of the new
month by sighting the new moon, the rest of the festivals were calculated.
However, the seventh month, Tishri, was particularly important because it
was the only month that had a holy convocation or appointed time on the
first day of the month. This posed a unique problem. The first day of
Tishri was the appointed time called Rosh HaShanah, the Feast of Trumpets
(Vayikrah-Leviticus 23:24). Yet no one could begin observing the festival
until they heard those famous words from the President of the Sanhedrin,
"Sanctified!"

No one in Israel could plan for the first day of the seventh month Tishri,
called Yom Teruah or the Feast of Trumpets (also called Rosh HaShanah).
When they knew how many days to count to a festival, that would be easy.
But:

HOW COULD THEY PLAN FOR A FESTIVAL THAT THEY DID NOT KNOW AT WHAT DAY OR HOUR IT WOULD PUBLICALLY BE ANNOUNCED AND THUS BEGIN?

This was unique to Rosh HaShanah and dependent upon the testimony of the
two witnesses. Prophetically, we are informed of two important witnesses
during the Great Tribulation:

And I will give power unto My Two Witnesses, and they will prophesy 1260
days, clothed in sackcloth. Rev 11:3

Of course, anyone could look up into the twilight or early morning sky and,
if they looked hard enough, see the new moon or at least its "horns". And
certainly, an astute observer knew when about 29- days were completed since
the previous Rosh Chodesh. But recall, ONLY THE SANHEDRIN NASSI had the
authority to proclaim the first of Tishri, which was already established as
a technical procedure. Once proclaimed, the Feast of Trumpets (Rosh
HaShanah) commenced. Until that public announcement by the Nassi, everyone
had to wait before they could begin the observance of the festival. No one
could begin the festival beforehand! Thus, we can more clearly see the
analogy Jesus made with His words: "But of that day and hour knoweth no
man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only" was in regards to
this important festival of Rosh HaShanah.

**********************************************************************

To educate, train and equip for study both the Jew and
Non-Jew in the Rich Hebraic Heritage of our Faith.

Please visit the Hebraic Roots Global Network
Web Site located at:

http://www.hebroots.org/

Eddie Chumney
Hebraic Heritage Ministries Int'l

A response to a comment, three years late.

I wrote this in response to a comment. I am including it for your benefit as misconceptions and false teachings run rampant. I rarely talk to anyone who has a firm grasp on what happens after the seven years of wrath. I hope you find this beneficial, and yes, it is long.

Well, here it is three years since you wrote your comment and I am finally responding to it. I wish I could tell you why but I cannot remember now. Perhaps I can chalk it up to not having enough time at that point, but as I had only recently been fired from my last job back then, you might think I had nothing but time. Perhaps I did not have a clear answer and needed to develop a concrete response; or, maybe I just forgot. Regardless, another comment, just a few days ago - three years later, has brought your comment to my attention once again.

Let me add, that in the process of learning how to deal with my thoughts on “paper” and then subject myself to potential criticism, was quite challenging. I can tell you that I did not handle criticism well back then; I am not sure I manage it well now, but I certainly deal with it differently now. Having read another bloggers advice I have responded, deleted and blocked several caustic and religious “Christians.” However, I did not do that with yours as you were not hostile. I also felt that people who are reading my blog needed to see what the other questions are.

Your question/and interpretative challenges you put forth are not new to my world. Recently, as I sat among the men in Monday mornings "Bible study" the leader, unprovoked by me, proffered this very assumption, and he did so as though it was doctrine. As I have done with you I challenged his premise from the Word of God; however, he disregarded it. Considering how we are to make the Word of God the final authority on questions and challenges, our morning teacher chose to ignore what the word of God had to say and added, then I am stating my opinion, and that is all that matters. While opinions can often be important and valid, they are not all that matters, especially when you are alone with that idea. Fortunately, all these interpretative challenges will become clear someday as they are tested with fire before the Bema seat of Christ.

For now, let me offer a response.

You said, “Are we not told in Revelation, that when Jesus returns and throws the anti-Christ and false prophet into the lake of fire that He kills “the rest” with the sword from His mouth?”

While you are correct, it does say that, but the hypothesis is misleading because you ignored the context, which we find in Revelation 19:19.

Allow me to explain.

Revelation 19:15-19 NASB 15) From His mouth comes a sharp sword, so that with it He may strike down the nations, and He will rule them with a rod of iron; and He treads the winepress of the fierce wrath of God, the Almighty. 16) And on His robe and on His thigh He has a name written, "KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS." 17) Then I saw an angel standing in the sun, and he cried out with a loud voice, saying to all the birds which fly in mid-heaven, "Come, assemble for the great supper of God, 18) so that you may eat the flesh of kings and the flesh of commanders and the flesh of mighty men and the flesh of horses and of those who sit on them and the flesh of all men, both free men and slaves, and small and great." 19) And I saw the beast and the kings of the earth and their armies assembled to make war against Him who sat on the horse and against His army.

What do we see here?

• Jesus, with a sword in his mouth.
  With that sword He will strike down the nations, AND, He will rule them with a rod of iron.
  Why would there be a need to rule them if it is only believers that go into the Millennial kingdom? Remember, we believers were changed in the twinkling of an eye.
  Yes, I noted your comment that apparently only believers enter the Millennial reign.
  I have covered this in more detail toward the end.
• An angel invites the birds to come and eat the flesh of kings, commanders, and so on, at the great supper of God.
• And finally verse 19, the most telling of all as it says, “And I saw the beast and the kings of the earth and their armies assembled to make war against Him who sat on the horse and against His army.”
  So, who is fighting against Jesus at this point in time?
  Is it all the nations, with all their citizenry? NO, it is the beast; the kings of the earth, and their armies. Why do I know this, because the context tells us precisely who is involved and therefore killed.

For the sake of context let's go ahead and use Revelation 19:20,21 as well.

Revelation 19:20, 21 NASB And the beast was seized, and with him the false prophet who performed the signs in his presence, by which he deceived those who had received the mark of the beast and those who worshiped his image; these two were thrown alive into the lake of fire which burns with brimstone. 21) And the rest were killed with the sword which came from the mouth of Him who sat on the horse, and all the birds were filled with their flesh.

Based on what we see in Revelation19:19, we know that there is a large army amassed against Jesus and the saints with Him. It is evident from Revelation 19:20 that only two persons are thrown into the lake of fire at this point; the beast (known to us as the Antichrist,) and the false prophet who deceived those who had received the mark of the beast and worshiped his image. And, they are thrown alive into the lake. Therefore the remainder: kings; commanders, and the army are those that are killed; no one else.

Assuming that we could not perceive the context, could we then build an argument on logical thought and patterns?

When you look at Revelation 19:21 NASB, it unquestionably states that the rest were killed, and that sounds compelling doesn't it? And yet, the word rest/loipoi means remaining ones: - other, which remain, remnant, residue, rest.

The word rest, when we look at the Greek definition, is not so definitive because it allows for others remaining, which can easily include those from Israel if I don't follow the context. But there is a context, and it specifically points to those armies collected to fight against Jesus Christ.

Some of that "logical" evidence and pattern shows up in Zechariah's prophetic word, as God has gathered the nations against Jerusalem for punishment.

Zechariah tells us that at least one-third of Israel makes it through the onslaught. I, however, cannot comfortably say that these Jews are those that have gone into hiding, and the reason for that is verse nine as you can see by this statement, “I will bring the third through the fire, Refine them as silver.., and test them..” This refining is not an example, in my mind of people in hiding. Now if I compared the plight of these Jews with someone like Corie Ten Boom, a woman who helped many people avoid the wrath of the Nazis, many, not knowing the whole story, might think that she escaped and did not have to go through the “fire.” But, we are aware from her testimony that she was caught, tortured in the prison camp, and lost family members to the Nazis.

Zechariah 13:8-9 NASB "It will come about in all the land," Declares the LORD, "That two parts in it will be cut off and perish; But the third will be left in it. 9) "And I will bring the third part through the fire, Refine them as silver is refined, And test them as gold is tested. They will call on My name, And I will answer them; I will say, 'They are My people,' And they will say, 'The LORD is my God.'"

Isaiah 66 tells us of what appears to be the same scene, and yet, it is not all but many.

Isaiah 66:15-16 NASB For behold, the LORD will come in fire And His chariots like the whirlwind, To render His anger with fury, And His rebuke with flames of fire. 16) For the LORD will execute judgment by fire And by His sword on all flesh, And those slain by the LORD will be many.

Still trying to define who “the rest” would be, there is this:

Zechariah 14:1-4 NASB Behold, a day is coming for the LORD when the spoil taken from you will be divided among you. 2) For I will gather all the nations against Jerusalem to battle, and the city will be captured, the houses plundered, the women ravished and half of the city exiled, but the rest of the people will not be cut off from the city. 3) Then the LORD will go forth and fight against those nations, as when He fights on a day of battle. 4) In that day His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives, which is in front of Jerusalem on the east; and the Mount of Olives will be split in its middle from east to west by a very large valley, so that half of the mountain will move toward the north and the other half toward the south.

Since we know that this is an important and defining battle will every person including women and children come and join in the fight?

The obvious answer is NO. We already see examples of this when we look at the Islamic world. Children are taught from the age of understanding, to hate and kill the Jew and anyone who is not a Muslim. The news used to show us young boys about age seven learning to shoot AK 47s', but it is not practical to place children on the front lines of battle. So, while there will be those with a violent hatred against anything that represents a god other than say, Allah; not all will come to battle and therefore not be included as a combatant, and not killed.

There is no struggle to understand this, and, I don't have to go looking for other scriptures to prove my point any further because I stayed true to the context.

Consider, if you haven't already, that death is separation from God, and is much more than the cessation of breathing, as the spirit ever lives on.

Before I move on to another aspect of your note to me I have to address this statement more fully,
You added a defining factor when you continued with: “That is, everyone who took the mark of the beast.”

You said this in conjunction with this statement: “Are we not told in Revelation, that when Jesus returns and throws the anti-Christ and false prophet into the lake of fire that He kills “the rest” with the sword from His mouth?“ This implies that only those with the mark are destined for separation from God, and it also implies that those receiving the mark desired to be in compliance with the beast, but that is not the case as most are merely trying to save a life, their own.

The passages from Revelation 19 that initiated this response, tell us in verse 20 that they were deceived. There is no reason to believe that the deceived are doing anything but weeping at the realization of their fate. You can see from the same verses you referenced that no one else is thrown into the lake of fire at this time, and, there is no denying that at some point those who received the mark and worshiped the image of the beast, are judged, but that is not done here in Revelation 19:21.

What if this is not a government, like the USA, and most people in America assume, that is imposing this mark upon people?

(By the way, taking the mark does not condemn you to hell's flames; it must include the worshiping of the beast and the image of the beast.)

Islam does a modified version of this marking already, as they victimize conquered peoples.

They call it a Jizya tax, and you are made to wear an identifying band around your arm or head. Without paying this tax you cannot buy or sell under their regime, and it is intentionally made impossible. Allegedly, there is a way around this tax, and that is to convert to Islam. To do so, you must deny Christ, His deity, and proclaim that there is no god but Allah and that Mohammad is his messenger. Often they, at this point, treat you as an unworthy coward and kill you anyway.

So, let me ask you a question.

Do Muslims have to take this mark? In most cases, as with women, they are mandated to wear a burka out of compliance, but all of us can see that this is not standardized.

Therefore, I can safely assume that it is only those outside of Islam that must comply like this.

Perhaps I am being far too presumptuous in attributing this designation to Islam, but what other groups, outside of governments, have the capability and desire to globally mark a specific group of people?

I offer you the passage that shows that this taking the mark we speak of is a three-part equation.

Revelation 14:9-11 NASB 9) Then another angel, a third one, followed them, saying with a loud voice, "If anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives a mark on his forehead or on his hand, 10) he also will drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is mixed in full strength in the cup of His anger; and he will be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb. 11) "And the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever; they have no rest day and night, those who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name."

Even as I read Revelation 14:9-11 I can see that there is a point at which those who “ worship the beast and his image and receive a mark on his forehead or on his hand,” will drink the wine of God's wrath, and they will be tormented with fire. I think it is safe to presume that this is the lake of fire seeing as it matches the description we have of the lake of fire and its purpose.

You added,

“It would thus seem that the 1000 years is began with only believers.”

Since I already know that many Jews survive the wrath of God, can I also assume that they too are believers?

There several problems with the idea that the thousand years is begun with only believers and that Jews would be deemed Christians as they enter.

1. 1. I have to assume from the statement that the Jews are included as believers/Christians.
      However, we are never told that there are Christians, living among the nations, that go into eternity.
      What we do understand is that there are those who warm seats in church buildings that will not go up when Jesus comes for His church. Since John saw the beheaded around the throne in heaven twice, we understand from what he related that their number was uncountable. These people are given the title of saint. The saints only get that title as they are martyred for their testimony, but their numbers are not included among those going into the Millennial reign.
      A defining statement about the saints is made in Revelation 20:4,5, where the martyred saints are brought back to life; this is labeled the first resurrection.
      The Jews, on the other hand, will not accept the title of Christian as that is a Gentile creation. What they do accept is Yeshua as the Messiah and they would never, with a free choice, agree to be called a Christian. Should they choose not to receive Yeshua then I suppose they would be intermingled with the nations. However, since God lifts the veil from their eyes and all peoples, we can safely assume that most remaining Jews would come to accept the true Messiah.
   2. Another problem arises as you have these “believers” going into the Millennium and then living the despicable lives we see in Revelation 22:15.
      How is that possible that God would allow these fractured believers into the city where no despicable person can enter; only to later go out and do what Satan did - use his free will and choice to act in opposition to God? The logic doesn't work unless it is the nations going into the Millennial reign along with their vile hatred for God, then Revelation 22:15 makes sense.
   3. The other problem, and it is common in the Western/Gentile church. We ignore or do not realize that there are only three people groups, at any given time, in the world. They are The Jews; the nations, and, the Church.
      Yes, some Jews can be considered among the Church, and time will prove that out, as they too will be caught up with the Church when Jesus comes in the clouds. Sadly, the Jews, right now, lean more toward the side of the nations as they too will be the targets for God's wrath alongside the nations.
      The nations and the Gentiles are effectively the same things in God's eyes. In the Western, “civilized” church, we see ourselves as set apart. However, the only thing that sets us apart is our acceptance of this adoption status we have been given. Simply because the “world” does not accept this adoption status, we presume that forgiveness does not and cannot cover their sins as well, but that is not true. The only thing anyone will be judged for is, what that person did with Jesus. That's all.
      At some point, multitudes of these people (the nations) will come into relationship with God. This is all laid out in scriptures by prophets, like Ezekiel. The key here then is the leaves of the trees of life, for the healing of the nations. Healing is the Greek word therapeía; attendance (specifically medical, that is, cure); figuratively and collectively domestics: - healing,

Since we, the church, with our brokenness; twisted ideas; legalism; and prejudices, are not allowed to bring this junk/sin into eternity with God, then, we will be changed in the twinkling of an eye, and so will those who partake of the leaves that give eternal life.

Consider the process here. The nations, in general, do not have access to the trees of life as that would give them immortality without change. But the entire purpose here is to bring these people on the outside into relationship. However, God is not going to allow them to bring their garbage with them as they come into a relationship with Him during the Millennial reign.

There is coming a day when Jesus will return in the clouds to gather His bride back to himself. As you know we call that the rapture, therefore the “believers” should effectively be gone. You should also realize that not everyone that warms a pew will be caught up to be with the Lord. I know this because the Word tells us that he comes for those who are waiting for Him.

1. 4. I am assuming that you when you say believers are then referring to those who continue to come and accept Jesus as their hope and salvation during the time of wrath. Calling them believers might make sense but is inappropriate as Scripture never refers to them as believers; it does, however, call them saints.

This idea of saints can and does cause some confusion as it seems the church is also referred to as saints. However, the word is only used in the Revelation and is always used about those martyred for their testimony. After the rapture, grace is gone. What those who come to Jesus have to live with is something comparable to living under the law as Israel did in the wilderness.

Revelation 12:11 NASB "And they overcame him because of the blood of the Lamb and because of the word of their testimony, and they did not love their life even when faced with death.

It seems like you asked many questions, however, as I looked at your note you have been making statements; statements that do not align with the Word of God, and I felt they needed to be addressed.

The final thing I want to address is what seems to be your question.

“I am curious as to where you get the idea that mere compliance, or not getting the mark, will be enough to enter into the 1000 year reign of Christ.”

In response to this question how about, we start with Matthew 25:31-46. This is effectively the same story as Revelation 20 where we see the Great White Throne. The players are all the same but they have different names. The Judge is the same but Matthew conveys him as a gentle shepherd in contrast with the angry God of Revelation. Matthew's gospel focuses on the outcome of the sheep, while Revelation 20 speaks to those not found in the books.

Matthew 25:31-46 NASB "But when the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the angels with Him, then He will sit on His glorious throne. 32) "All the nations will be gathered before Him; and He will separate them from one another, as the shepherd separates the sheep from the goats; 33) and He will put the sheep on His right, and the goats on the left. 34) "Then the King will say to those on His right, 'Come, you who are blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world. 35) 'For I was hungry, and you gave Me something to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave Me something to drink; I was a stranger, and you invited Me in; 36) naked, and you clothed Me; I was sick, and you visited Me; I was in prison, and you came to Me.' 37) "Then the righteous will answer Him, 'Lord, when did we see You hungry, and feed You, or thirsty, and give You something to drink? 38) 'And when did we see You a stranger, and invite You in, or naked, and clothe You? 39) 'When did we see You sick, or in prison, and come to You?' 40) "The King will answer and say to them, 'Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did it to one of these brothers of Mine, even the least of them, you did it to Me.' 41) "Then He will also say to those on His left, 'Depart from Me, accursed ones, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels; 42) for I was hungry, and you gave Me nothing to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave Me nothing to drink; 43) I was a stranger, and you did not invite Me in; naked, and you did not clothe Me; sick, and in prison, and you did not visit Me.' 44) "Then they themselves also will answer, 'Lord, when did we see You hungry, or thirsty, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not take care of You?' 45) "Then He will answer them, 'Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.' 46) "These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life."

In verse 34 he tells the crowd entitled the sheep "to come inherit the kingdom prepared for you." They obtain this mercy because they acted like the nature and character of Jesus/God. The judge, which is only Jesus, explains:

'For I was hungry, and you gave Me something to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave Me something to drink; I was a stranger, and you invited Me in; 36) naked, and you clothed Me; I was sick, and you visited Me; I was in prison, and you came to Me.'

If you have read this, did you ever notice how shocked they were?

When did we see You sick, or in prison, and come to You?' 40) "The King will answer and say to them, 'Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did it to one of these brothers of Mine, even the least of them, you did it to Me.'

If these had been deemed as such before the rapture, making them “believers', then why didn't they go up with the church?

Another thing that gives me the freedom to talk about non-compliance as an entrance into the kingdom is the process of martyrdom itself. What are the things that define them as God's possession?

Revelation 6:9 NASB When the Lamb broke the fifth seal, I saw underneath the altar the souls of those who had been slain because of the word of God, and because of the testimony which they had maintained;

The mere fact that these are found underneath the altar is indicative of God claiming them as His own.

Revelation 12:11 NASB "And they overcame him because of the blood of the Lamb and because of the word of their testimony, and they did not love their life even when faced with death.

Twice now we have seen the term testimony, but what does mean and what does that look like under extreme pressure?

The word testimony is the Greek word marturía meaning to witness. A witness, certification (Joh_1:7), testimony (Mar_14:55-56, Mar_14:59; Luk_22:71), that which someone witnesses or states concerning a person or thing (Act_22:18; 1Ti_3:7; Tit_1:13).

Paul, while still known as Saul, is told by God to go to Damascus where a devout man, a Jew named Ananias, was sent to Saul. After Ananias prayed for Saul, he received his sight. Shortly after this Saul has a dream/vision. In that vision he is told:

Acts 22:18 NASB and I saw Him saying to me, 'Make haste, and get out of Jerusalem quickly because they will not accept your testimony about Me.'

What are the ramifications of this? Saul, in talking about the Messiah Jesus would be subject to death for several reasons: The Jew's had been taught to reject Yeshua. Some proof of this happened when Herod is told the Magi are coming. Their numbers were large enough to cause some alarm, and so he demands that the Jewish leadership tell him what is going on. They said that the scripture called for the king of the Jews to be born in Bethlehem. While this information got Herod's attention, the Jews made no effort at all to visit this king of Jews born in a manger. Herod, on the other hand, had all the boys in that region, two and below, killed.

Saul had other problems as well, as he had essentially been a hit man for the Jewish council. Now, this should not have scared the Jews who held to tradition, but converts could have to run for their lives. This Saul was now making converts himself, another reason to kill him.

So what does this idea of testimony look like, especially to a Coptic Christian living in the Middle East?

Let's assume you are a Christian living in the once quiet little Syrian town of Aleppo. Perhaps our first question is, what is it about these people that tell others they are “Christians”?

Imagine ISIS overruns your quiet little burgh, and you cannot escape. They take you captive, and, after having some fun with you by torturing and raping your wife and children and then dismembering them slowly, they demand that you convert and give allegiance to Allah. After a morning of such wasteful frivolities, they have had enough and needed to move on. A sword is placed to your neck with the command, comply – worship Allah or die. You reply with a simple no. Seconds later your bruised and battered head rolls away from your body.

What just happened?

Did you, by your non-compliance, affirm that there is a God greater than an invented name called Allah? Or, did you, by denying the one accept the other? Is it possible that God is not the least bit interested in our church-related methods of mandated compliance, and does not care if your name is on a list of those who publicly made motions of acceptance in some religious service?

I have an ex-son-in-law who did all that, and yet lives a life of lies and deceit. I am not his judge, and I do not know his heart, but I can tell you that when his fruit falls off the tree, it is already rotten and immediately begins to stink up the yard and the lives of those with which he interacts.

What this tells me, is that God is looking at the heart and the motives, and that, which only He sees, is what matters. I decided long ago, after spending a tortured lifetime in the organized church, that if I must err then let it be on the side of mercy. Funny how that works, for I hear Him constantly telling me, good job and well done because you acted just like I would have.

The Lord will restore Israel. Ezekiel 39:25-29.

Most anytime someone asks a question; they already have an answer in their head. What they are trying to do is validate the understanding they have; challenge the information they are holding on to, or to make you look foolish when they ask you the answer to their theoretical question. This last aspect comes into play as some Bible study leader asks you a vague question, which could have multiple answers depending on the scenario and context. You, as I have, stare back at the person asking, for what seems like an eternity but in reality is only about three to five seconds, while you debate with yourself about the validity of the first thought that ran through your head. The only legitimate reason you have for such internal debate is that the answer came so quickly. There are other reasons that you did not give your answer, such as, internal doubts and not wanting to be wrong.

[I started this on a recent Sunday morning before we went to church. That was a mistake as  I dug up some painful memories of rejection. To be honest sharing this information with you just about ruined my entire day. I hope you gain something from it. Oz]

I have some added baggage that I have to sort through when analyzing a potential answer that I like to call the voices in my head. As an example, one of them sounds like my father, who dismissed anything I said. In one drastic incident, we were at a church picnic with family friends. My dad's friend had a son my age, and we were playing hide-and-seek in a rather well-manicured storm drain. Some girl wanted to play, and we ignored her, so she decided to ruin the game by telling the one seeking where you were hiding. We called it quits and went to the park bathroom to wash up for lunch. At this point that girls big brother (he might as well have been six foot tall because all I remember was looking up at him,) came into the bathroom, said you punched my sister and then he hit me in the face. For this injustice against me, I was put in the hot car for a time frame I cannot remember, merely for being the victim, although that is not what Dad said as he was sure I had initiated this evil and probably deserved a punch in the face. 

I am not sure what motivated my father's actions that day, except that I learned that this was the way his father did things. Years later when I challenged him over this behavior, his response was, get over it. While the hatred is gone because I forgave him, aspects of this moment in time, along with others, still haunt me over fifty years later.

You noticed that I mentioned the voices in my head. Give me a break, you all have them too, and one of them sounds like your mother. But the obvious factor to me is that these voices cause you mistrust yourself. Sadly, once you come to realize the depth of the Holy Spirit in your life, you find yourself doubting God's voice as well.

What does that have to do with Ezekiel? The NASB entitles this section;

The Lord Will Restore Israel.

Do I doubt that? No, but if I tried to understand what God is going to do immediately after the wrath of God ends, based on what Bible teachers have shoved down my throat, I would not have a clue.

Some of the lies and beliefs have included:

• That Israel has been replaced. This is in total opposition to Ezekiel 39:25-29. The idea of God restoring Israel is embedded throughout the Bible.
• That only Christian's will enter the thousand-year reign. Again, this is false teaching, as there will be survivors of God's/man's wrath. Why would there be the need for God to make a statement like this, “Blessed are those who wash their robes, so that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter by the gates into the city. 15) Outside are the dogs and the sorcerers and the immoral persons and the murderers and the idolaters, and everyone who loves and practices lying.” Revelation 22:14-15 NASB
• All who come to the Great White Throne are sent to hell. I realize this point is a little off topic but it conveys a lack of understanding about the nature of the God we serve.

I hate to say it this way, but much of what we hear under the guise of teaching is garbage. To be able to sort out the garbage from the truth will require you, the reader, to have a personal knowledge of what the truth is; the Word of God.

If you are trying to understand things that seem vague or unclear, then begin to look at other passages that convey a similar message. As a follower of Christ you have the Holy Spirit to guide you, but take it to the next level and ask the Holy Spirit to dwell within you. It's better that way.

Ezekiel 39:25-29 NASB Therefore thus says the Lord GOD, "Now I will restore the fortunes of Jacob and have mercy on the whole house of Israel; and I will be jealous for My holy name. 26) "They will forget their disgrace and all their treachery which they perpetrated against Me when they live securely on their own land with no one to make them afraid. 27) "When I bring them back from the peoples and gather them from the lands of their enemies, then I shall be sanctified through them in the sight of the many nations. 28) "Then they will know that I am the LORD their God because I made them go into exile among the nations, and then gathered them again to their own land; and I will leave none of them there any longer. 29) "I will not hide My face from them any longer, for I will have poured out My Spirit on the house of Israel," declares the Lord GOD.

In trying to understand what God is saying through Ezekiel, the first thing I want to decipher as I read this is what is the timing that surrounds the word NOW.

It is obvious, in the scheme of things, that something has changed. Considering the death and destruction Ezekiel has been describing you might think it would be the end of all war. However, this war with Gog is only one of many wars, no matter how large they are. Is there anything in scripture that logically answers the question about the timing? Yes, and a number of them have to do with Jesus coming back as the Messiah that Israel was hoping for.

If you are like me, asking questions because you want to understand, you are not alone for the disciples asked the same question, and we find it here:

Matthew 24:3 NASB As He was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately, saying, "Tell us, when will these things happen, and what will be the sign of Your coming, and of the end of the age?"

They asked three questions, two of them apply to the timing involved when God said, “Now I will restore the fortunes of Jacob and have mercy on the whole house of Israel; and I will be jealous for My holy name.” Let's focus on two of them:

• What will be the sign of your coming?

Revelation 19:11-16 NASB 11) And I saw heaven opened, and behold, a white horse, and He who sat on it is called Faithful and True, and in righteousness He judges and wages war. 12) His eyes are a flame of fire, and on His head are many diadems; and He has a name written on Him which no one knows except Himself. 13) He is clothed with a robe dipped in blood, and His name is called The Word of God. 14) And the armies which are in heaven, clothed in fine linen, white and clean, were following Him on white horses. 15) From His mouth comes a sharp sword, so that with it He may strike down the nations, and He will rule them with a rod of iron; and He treads the wine press of the fierce wrath of God, the Almighty. 16) And on His robe and on His thigh He has a name written, "KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS."

Revelation 1:7 NASB BEHOLD, HE IS COMING WITH THE CLOUDS, and every eye will see Him, even those who pierced Him; and all the tribes of the earth will mourn over Him. So it is to be. Amen.

• And, what will be the end of the age?

This one is a bit more gray, especially when you consider that the Millennial reign will be our migration into eternity. What is the difference between the Millennial reign and eternity? The thousand-year reign will still have broken people like this walking around outside the city.

Revelation 9:20-21 NASB 20) The rest of mankind, who were not killed by these plagues, did not repent of the works of their hands, so as not to worship demons, and the idols of gold and of silver and of brass and of stone and of wood, which can neither see nor hear nor walk; 21) and they did not repent of their murders nor of their sorceries nor of their immorality nor of their thefts.

While those of us, living in the city (I assume), will still have an evangelistic and life giving mission. Truth be told, I despise the idea of trying to win the lost. Having had this shoved down my throat as a shy kid, I found it to be one of the most painful and discouraging experiences of my life, and I swore I would never do that again. All these years later, I have conversations with people about the God I have come to understand, and I have them boldly and moderately loud. I do this in opposition to those who look around and make sure no one can hear them before attempting to share some story about Jesus. Typically done in this manner, you will be getting a good dose of religion and I am done with religion.

On the plus side of things, during the millennial reign we will be free from the fear of death, the one thing that inhibits me more than anything. Can you imagine a life free from fear?

If I have not conveyed it yet, let me do so now; Jesus will return in this victorious manner at the end of the seven-year period in which God's wrath and judgment have been poured upon the nations and Israel. If I have not conveyed it yet, let me do so now; Jesus will return in this manner at the end of the seven-year period in which God's wrath and judgment will be poured upon the nations and Israel.

Do other people; decent people suffer during this time? Considering that people will continue to come to recognize the lordship of Jesus during this time, then yes. Will God's wrath be dished out by evil people as well? Yes, and they will lop off the heads of converts during this time.

With ugliness happening during this seven year period, such as having your head lopped off, do we see anything that looks like: “I will restore the fortunes of Jacob and have mercy on the whole house of Israel.” The answer is no, as this will not happen until Jesus comes back and restores order. Now that may be entirely taken care of by the judges we see enthroned; these judges by-the-way are the previously martyred during the time of wrath.

“They will forget their disgrace and all their treachery which they perpetrated against Me, when they live securely on their own land with no one to make them afraid.”

“They” is the Jews. As I noted before those of us who apparently live within the new Jerusalem, will have our lives changed from perishable to eternal. As an eternal being, the fear of death and pain will no longer be an issue. This immortality will apply to the Jew as well.

To live securely, with no fear of being driven out of your land, is something beyond comprehension, but note how the security comes with a mental freedom from the disgrace and treachery they perpetrated against God. (If you wanted to know how God feels about our turning our backs on Him, there it is.)

“When I bring them back from the peoples and gather them from the lands of their enemies, then I shall be sanctified through them in the sight of the many nations. 28) "Then they will know that I am the LORD their God because I made them go into exile among the nations, and then gathered them again to their own land; and I will leave none of them there any longer. Ezekiel 39:27-28 NASB

Israel is a nation today because people came back, and yet, this is something more. How He does it is not spelled out, but they will come this time, forever.

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And I will set my glory among the nations. Ezekiel 39: 21-24.

Having slaughtered Gog and his armies on the mountains of Israel. Okay, maybe that was a little harsh, besides that, my pastor says I am a little edgy and slaughtered is an edgy type of word. And yet, that is how things seem.

Does God wipe out the Islamic armies of the world with this battle? Not by any stretch of the imagination; and yet, that is the garbage that many of our so-called Bible teachers teach. Why? Because in reality, these prophecies/stories, are much like fractals, which, when you look closely they make no sense, but step back and take it all in, and then you can see the overall picture. All of God's word is like this. Some aspects of the fractal are beautiful in themselves and carry deep meaning, and yet make up the larger, more complex picture.

In the last post, I covered Ezekiel 39:17-20. It too is a fractal but without a doubt a bloody and deadly one. It has all the components of most horror movies. Blood, fireballs from heaven, lightning strikes upon the enemy, and hail, most likely in the hundred pound range, falling upon the enemy. God speaks here, much as he does in Revelation 19 where he calls forth the flesh-eating birds to feast upon the dead. Apparently, God's word is a little edgy.

In the midst of all this horror and chaos we have this:

Ezekiel 39:21 NASB "And I will set My glory among the nations; and all the nations will see My judgment which I have executed and My hand which I have laid on them.

As I speak, the nations are spread across multiple continents, speaking a variety of languages. Since God passed out those languages when he separated man at the tower of Babel, then I suppose this is not an issue for Him.

The words in the sentence give me nothing that explains or conveys what this glory will be or look like; so, let's pursue it a bit deeper. The Complete Jewish Bible translates this verse in this way:

“Thus will I display my glory among the nations, so that all the nations will see my judgment when I execute it and my hand when I lay it on them.”

The Word Study Dictionary tells us:

“This Hebrew word also means to put, to place, or something literally placed: the luminaries in the sky (Gen_1:17); God's bow in the clouds (Gen_9:13); the ark on a cart (1Sa_6:8); the abomination in the temple. It could also be something figuratively placed: an obstacle (Eze_3:20); God's Spirit (Isa_42:1).”

The verse itself tells us that God will set His glory among the nations. This display among the nations is not the first time He has done something like this, for He set His glory among Israel as they moved through the wilderness. We see that in Scripture as a cloud by day and a pillar of fire by night. Is this what He will do among the nations, perhaps not since the cloud and the fire was a benefit to Israel, and we are talking about the time of wrath and judgment.

When I look up the word glory I get this:

kabod (458c); from H3513; abundance, honor, glory:

The problem with these words is that they are intangible; only demonstrated through a relationship of trust. But God is not looking, at least during this period, the time of wrath, to show people that He can be trusted. He has already established that aspect of His character. (And yet, because He guaranteed that the wrath would come, isn't He, once again, establishing that He is trustworthy, in a negative way?)

The word see is rō’eh: A verb meaning to see. It's basic denotation is to see with the eyes (Gen_27:1).

As we have explored the meanings of words we can see that the judgments are the things to be seen.

“and all the nations will see My judgment which I have executed and My hand which I have laid on them.”

What, in brief, are the judgments against Israel and the Nations?

• Revelation 6:12 AMPC .. there was a great earthquake; and the sun grew black as sackcloth of hair, [the full disc of] the moon became like blood.
• Joel 2:30-31 NASB "I will display wonders in the sky and on the earth, Blood, fire, and columns of smoke. 31) "The sun will be turned into darkness And the moon into blood Before the great and awesome day of the LORD comes.
• Revelation 6:13 is taken from Isaiah 34:4 “.. And the sky will be rolled up like a scroll; All their hosts will also wither away As a leaf withers from the vine, Or as one withers from the fig tree.”
• Revelation 6:16 AMPC And they called to the mountains and the rocks, Fall on (before) us and hide us from the face of Him Who sits on the throne and from the deep-seated indignation and wrath of the Lamb. [Isa_2:19-21; Hos_10:8]
• Revelation 7:1 AMPC ... no wind should blow on the earth or sea or upon any tree. [Zec 6:5]
• Revelation 7:14 AMPC .. the great tribulation (persecution), and have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. [Gen_49:11; Dan_12:1]
• Daniel 12:1 CJB ".. there will be a time of distress unparalleled between the time they became a nation and that moment. ..
• Revelation 8:7 CJB .. there came hail and fire mingled with blood, and it was thrown down upon the earth. A third of the earth was burned up, a third of the trees were burned up, and all green grass was burned up.
• Revelation 8:8-9 CJB .. looked like an enormous blazing mountain was hurled into the sea. A third of the sea turned to blood, 9) a third of the living creatures in the sea died, and a third of the ships were destroyed.
• Revelation 8:10-11 CJB .. a third of the water became bitter, and many people died from the water that had been turned bitter.
• Revelation 9:1-5 CJB .. came locusts, and they were given power like the power scorpions have on earth. 4) They were instructed not to harm the grass on the earth, any green plant or any tree, but only the people who did not have the seal of God on their foreheads. 5) The locusts were not allowed to kill them, only to inflict pain on them for five months; and the pain they caused was like the pain of a scorpion sting.
• Revelation 9:14-15 CJB saying to the sixth angel, the one with the shofar, "Release the four angels that are bound at the great river Euphrates!" 15) And they were released. These four angels had been kept ready for this moment, for this day and month and year, to kill a third of mankind;

While there is more, can you see a visible aspect to what is being poured out upon the earth?

Ezekiel 39:22 NASB "And the house of Israel will know that I am the LORD their God from that day onward.

Again, there is a horrid variety of explanations on this, most foolishly cut Israel out of the picture prior to this moment in time, as they espouse their replacement theology. God is not done with Israel and this is a perfect example.

The verse tells us, “from that day forward,” the house of Israel will know that I am the Lord. The question is, from what day? The short answer is, from the beginning of the seven years of wrath and judgment that includes Israel.

Isaiah 25:7 NASB And on this mountain He will swallow up the covering which is over all peoples, Even the veil which is stretched over all nations.

Isaiah 29:18 NASB On that day the deaf will hear words of a book, And out of their gloom and darkness the eyes of the blind will see.

I suppose at this point the question that I have asked, just as most others have asked, is why?

Ezekiel 39:23-24 NASB "The nations will know that the house of Israel went into exile for their iniquity because they acted treacherously against Me, and I hid My face from them; so I gave them into the hand of their adversaries, and all of them fell by the sword. 24) "According to their uncleanness and according to their transgressions I dealt with them, and I hid My face from them."'"

The explanation is self-explanatory, but there an aspect that I have trouble with, “and all of them fell by the sword.” Now, is it true that all of Israel falls by the sword? The answer is NO, and we know that one-third of Israel escapes being killed during the seven years.

It seems that the translators lead us astray as well when the phrase “and all” can mean a variety of things depending upon the preceding noun or a definite article.

The Word Study Dictionary states:

kōl: A particle meaning each, every, all, everything, the whole, entire. It has an inclusive meaning of all or every one of something. Its exact meaning must be discerned from its usage in its context. Some representative samplings will help: With the definite article, it means the whole or everything of something (Ecc_11:5); used before a definite noun, it expresses the whole of that noun, the whole earth (Gen_9:19); whole people (Gen_41:40). Used after a noun, it can refer to the whole or entirety of the preceding noun (2Sa_2:9); before a plural noun, it usually means all, all the nations (Isa_2:2); before a collective noun, it means all or every, all people (Gen_7:21). Before a singular noun, it means every (Est_3:8). Other nuances of its use can be discerned from studying its context closely.

While not killing them all God indeed turned His face and forsook them.

Deuteronomy 31:17 AMPC Then My anger will be kindled against them in that day, and I will forsake them and hide My face from them. And they shall be devoured, and many evils and troubles shall befall them, so that they will say in that day, Have not these evils come upon us because our God is not among us?

Having struggled to find for myself who God is, this is a little hard to accept. Is it an accurate statement? Yes, then it is true that, for a time, God turned His face and forsook Israel. I sit with judgmental men who make comments like this only they condemn far too many to hell, as they decide who God is turning His back on. What I see as a puzzlement is a God who tattoos the faces of His people – this includes you and me, on His hands and then tells us that our faces are ever before Him. The key to understanding this lies in Israel choosing to disobey. Since sin is an integrated aspect of this body I drag around, then my only hope is to lean heavily on the one who gave me His righteousness.

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