Ezekiel 38:2; answering a rebuttal.

I wrote about the Gog/Magog war on a previous occasion, but it was painfully long and some time ago. Since that time a brother in Christ, whom I sit with frequently, and loves Eschatology as much as I do, recently brought up Ezekiel 38,39, as it appears to be the preeminent war on the horizon. That quiet conversation caused me to think, I need to be more skillful and knowledgeable about the Word of God and end times subjects. With this fresh motivation, I recently published An extensive look at Ezekiel 38/39 part one. One of the places I post appears to be occupied with legalistic religious types, who like big words. This inclination toward abusive interactions was not detailed in the site's description, but it quickly became evident. Pharisees, I am told, were purists; they demanded a precise rendering of the Torah and Talmud in their discussions, but anytime you see Jesus in a confrontational situation it is with religious leaders and their legalism.

So, two days later I looked to see if I had any comments about part one. I did, and I want to show you the first three lines of their extensive reply to my post. I, by the way, did not reply to this person as all respondents so far, have, with one exception, proven to be combative and not open to discussion. As this is a typical response, I find it easy to assume that they don't read their bibles for themselves and are willing to let others be their guides.

My wife asks me when I would come back from the Monday morning study, “why do you go there?” I would search my brain for a logical response, and say, for the fellowship I suppose. (Fellowship apparently does not mean the close congregation of fools.) I do obtain when I go to these fiascoes, is a generalized idea of what most “church” people understand or believe; and I have to tell you, we are in sad shape. It is no wonder few of us can stand our ground against the false and cultist teachings of the world. This post is an attempt at disseminating one persons scrambled Theology.

I have italicized and bulleted this person's response for clarity.

• “First of all Ezekiel is speaking to Satan [Called Gog]”

So, what does the scripture say?

Ezekiel 38:2 NET. “Son of man, turn toward Gog, of the land of Magog, the chief prince of Meshech and Tubal. Prophesy against him”

The Bible is only a mystery to those who do not want to see or understand. I think this is true because the Word of God is filled with truth that slaps you upside the head and challenges you to change, and people don't want to change. Keep in mind that Ezekiel (a priest and captive in Babylon.) was writing not only to, but about known persons, places, and things; things that not only he understood, but his readers would have understood as well.

If, Gog in this instance, was Satan, is it possible the character would have been given a more descriptive name than “the chief prince of Meshech and Tubal.”

Another method of Bible study is to let scripture assist you in defining what you are reading. Note how1Chronicles 5:4 NASB tells us that Gog was a person.

The sons of Joel were Shemaiah his son, Gog his son, Shimei his son,

Consider how Revelation 12:9 refers to Satan as “the huge dragon;” “the ancient serpent;” “Satan,” and, “the devil.” The logic in having Ezekiel say these things much like a taunt to Satan escapes me, especially when we (the church) have this for example.

Jude 1:9 GNB Not even the chief angel Michael did this. In his quarrel with the Devil, when they argued about who would have the body of Moses, Michael did not dare condemn the Devil with insulting words, but said, "The Lord rebuke you!"

Another translation, the Good News Bible, reads like this, “Mortal man," he said, "denounce Gog, chief ruler of the nations of Meshech and Tubal in the land of Magog. Denounce him and tell him that I, the Sovereign LORD, am his enemy.” I do not think there is any doubt in Satan's mind where he stands with God.

One last thing, in the post about Ezekiel 38/39 part one, I detailed how these descendants (from Noah) had gone north to the Caucasus mountain ranges of what is now northern Turkey, and banded together under the title of Scythians.

So, NO, Ezekiel is not speaking to Satan, and NO, this person is not going to live for over two thousand years. So, for this be fulfilled in our present day there has to be someone else to whom this title is ascribed, and he comes from the region of Turkey. The astute will pick up one other strong possibility, in that Ezekiel can also be speaking toward a demonic/fallen angel named Gog. For others to obtain that title across history, should be a good indicator that we are dealing with the demonic. An example of this might come from the probability that Principe Erdoğan of Turkey may well take on the role of Gog, the obvious factor is that Gog is not his name. Therefore Gog is clearly symbolic.

• “It is Satan who will muster the forces that will attack Israel in the future .... the entire effort will fail.”

A friend of mine is quick to respond to outlandish statements with, show me that in scripture! I feel the same way about this incredulous statement. What the respondent has done is combine multiple events into one.

At the end of the thousand-years does Satan deceive the nations and rally them for an attempt at killing God? Yes, he does, and this fails miserably with everyone gathering for war being burned to death. But what we see here in Ezekiel 38 is not that event, nor is at the end of time. This battle is mere minutes away, and we are watching the players gather in Syria as I write this.

Does scripture tell us who it is that draws Gog to the mountains of Israel? Yes, it does.

Ezekiel 38:3-4 NET. and say: 'This is what the Sovereign LORD says: Look, I am against you, Gog, chief prince of Meshech and Tubal. 4) I will turn you around, put hooks into your jaws, and bring you out with all your army, horses and horsemen, all of them fully armed, a great company with shields of different types, all of them armed with swords.

Ezekiel 38:16 NASB and you will come up against My people Israel like a cloud to cover the land. It shall come about in the last days that I will bring you against My land, so that the nations may know Me when I am sanctified through you before their eyes, O Gog."

This is fairly distinct, “It shall come about in the last days that I will bring you against My land, so that the nations may know Me.” There is no Satan involved in this process directly. The chronology of events will happen so fast as the Antichrist persona cries out “peace peace.”

2Thessalonians tells us

2 Thessalonians 2:6-8 GNB Yet there is something that keeps this from happening now, and you know what it is. At the proper time, then, the Wicked One will appear. 7) The Mysterious Wickedness is already at work, but what is going to happen will not happen until the one who holds it back is taken out of the way. 8) Then the Wicked One will be revealed, but when the Lord Jesus comes, he will kill him with the breath from his mouth and destroy him with his dazzling presence.

There is no reason to cry peace unless there is a war, and, you are losing.

• “This war will take place at the end of the coming tribulation period .... the battle of Armageddon.”

Revelation 19 paints a picture of Christ coming back to earth as the warring Messiah that Israel longed for, and in some cases, is looking for.

Revelation 19:15 NASB From His mouth comes a sharp sword, so that with it He may strike down the nations, and He will rule them with a rod of iron; and He treads the winepress of the fierce wrath of God, the Almighty.

It tells us that He will strike down the nations. Is this all people, for if it is then how do we have anything but the Jews and the church in the millennial reign, and where do the nations come from when Satan deceives so many of them at the end of time? Certainly, this describes a war, as does Joel 3:11,12.

Joel 3:11-12 NASB Hasten and come, all you surrounding nations, And gather yourselves there. Bring down, O LORD, Your mighty ones. 12) Let the nations be aroused And come up to the valley of Jehoshaphat, For there I will sit to judge All the surrounding nations.

This next set of passages can apply to the battle at the end of the seven-years, or it can apply to the final battle where the deceived nations are burned to death. Why it may even apply to both seeing as God likes to use the same scenario to describe several events. For example the desecration of the temple. Without a doubt, this has happened, and yet we know it will happen again.

Revelation 16:13-16 NASB 13) And I saw coming out of the mouth of the dragon and out of the mouth of the beast and out of the mouth of the false prophet, three unclean spirits like frogs; 14) for they are spirits of demons, performing signs, which go out to the kings of the whole world, to gather them together for the war of the great day of God, the Almighty. 15) ("Behold, I am coming like a thief. Blessed is the one who stays awake and keeps his clothes, so that he will not walk about naked and men will not see his shame.") 16) And they gathered them together to the place which in Hebrew is called Har-Magedon.

As you read this passage there is a huge clue embedded within it, “I saw coming out of the mouth of the dragon and out of the mouth of the beast and out of the mouth of the false prophet, three unclean spirits like frogs.” Since we know that the false prophet does not do his damage until 1260 days into the seven-period, then we also know that the armies being gathered would either apply to an immediate onslaught against Israel, or they apply to the time when the Messiah returns. Again, we have a tremendous clue when it says, “gather them together for the war of the great day of God.” Those not paying attention will miss this because it says the great of God and not the Messiah specifically. This is not a problem because we know that Jesus is God.

Armageddon. i.e. hill of slaughter, *S# G717. i.e. Mount of Decision or Sentence (Lange). Valley, a symbol of defeat; and, the hill, of victory.

A simplistic answer as to whether this battle, we see in Ezekiel 38, is the battle of Armageddon, is that many Ezdecisive battles have happened in the Jezreel Valley; and, at this time, we understand that there will be at least three more; one of which includes the battle against the deceived nations at the end of time.