Because He was the Son of God, really?

A brother in Christ was reading a passage in Revelation and it prompted him to make the declaration that Jesus would have known the Old Testament. My friend took his claim one step further by asserting that this knowledge would have been instilled from the womb because He was the Son of God. His assertions were posted in a group chat that is part of a devotional several of us take part in. 

This is my response.

If I approach my understanding of Jesus through the word "learned," the rabbit hole, as one "brother in Christ" put it, takes me to Joseph, the husband of Mary.

Let's stop here for a moment and see if we can figure out where or how Jesus obtained His education.

For me, the obvious observation was that Jesus was NOT operating within the same educational patterns that we humans have to deal with. We gain some defining expressions from Hebrews.

Hebrews 5:7-9 MKJV  For Jesus, in the days of His flesh, when He had offered up prayers and supplications with strong cryings and tears to Him who was able to save Him from death and was heard in that He feared,  (8)  though being a Son, yet He learned obedience by the things which He suffered.  (9)  And being perfected, He became the author of eternal salvation to all those who obey Him,

He was flesh from the moment God placed that embryo in Mary, with her permission of course; and, these two humans (Joseph and Mary,) had to teach Him who He was according to what was written and spoken about the Father. Now, consider that even one scroll, of perhaps Deuteronomy, would have been extremely expensive and so valued that you probably would not have touched it.

Here is something you rarely hear a preacher say, to make matters worse Jesus was deemed an illegitimate child, and the law of God forbade an illegitimate child from entering the Synagogue or Temple (Deuteronomy 23:2.) With that in mind, all that Jesus came to understand was from the oral traditions. As Jesus grew beside Joseph all the law, stories, and history were recited at every opportunity.

Another consideration is that silly game we played as children where a sentence is whispered into the ear of the person next to you. The sentence has typically changed its meaning drastically by the time it hits the fourth person. Now add thousands of years to these stories; it could only be the Holy Spirit of God that could have preserved the truth and details of these epic adventures God has taken with us.

How is it that I should have an impulse such as this, for I find myself constantly telling these same stories of and about God?

So let's break down Hebrews 5:7-9.

• "in the days of His flesh."

  In a human frame or body, humanity.

• "Though he were a Son."

  Generally used of the offspring of men, but, in the case of Jesus, he was deemed a male offspring. But it is also used to describe one who depends on another.

• "Yet learned obedience"

  Obedience also means to be affected or have been affected, to feel, have a sensible experience, to undergo.

• "By the things which he suffered."

  Suffered means to be affected or have been affected, to feel, or to have a sensible experience, to undergo.

So, it is clear that Jesus had to undergo life as a human, but without the drive to sin.

If you cannot understand this concept of being without sin, then you have missed the importance of God having Mary carry a fertilized embryo that bypassed the genetic damage sustained through Adam; damage that apparently pushes us to lust. Remember, the lamb (Jesus) had to be unblemished.

The plan of God to redeem humanity had to work this way to be legal. This legality goes back to the garden and Adam's treason as Adam relinquished the dominion of the earth to Satan with his actions. Therefore, everything we see in scripture, from Genesis to Revelation, is part of God's plan to redeem the world and humanity; and thus we have Jesus being born of man.

Because Mary stood her ground, saying that God was the father of Jesus, she was scorned, and Jesus was deemed an illegitimate child. Give me a break, none of those neighbors in Bethlehem bought into the idea that this baby was the product of God doing an in Vitro fertilization, they did not even have terminology like that. So Mary was thought of as nothing less than a liar. Joseph's acceptance of Mary's claim made him just as unbelievable. 

Do you struggle with this, too bad because this is reality? 

Did you notice that when Joseph went back to his hometown, with his betrothed wife, a wife that apparently continued to hold her belief and understanding of what transpired, NONE of Joseph's kinfolk would take him and his betrothed into their homes?

Continuing down the rabbit hole, as one brother in Christ puts it.

How did Jesus learn the Old Testament?

Well, Matthew 1:19 gives us one of the greatest clues about Jesus' education when it says Joseph, her husband, being a righteous man. Righteous, according to Thayer, is one who observes divine laws, and, keeps the commands of God. Jesus, being a Mumzer (an illegitimate child according to God's law,) would not have been allowed into the synagogue or their schools to learn the scriptures, therefore, it was the father's role to teach the young Jesus, and he did just that; he was qualified.

Want proof?

At age twelve we find the young Yahshua (Jesus) in the Synagogue in Jerusalem, a place where he was not known, intelligently discussing scriptures with the scribes and elders.

Hebrews 12:2 The act of fixing my eyes on Jesus. An edited repost.

This idea of fixing my eyes on Jesus will not let go of me.

Hebrews 12:2 Let us fix our eyes on Jesus, the author, and perfecter of our faith, who for the joy set before him endured the cross, scorning its shame and sat down at the right hand of the throne of God.

The KJV puts it this way:

"Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith;"

The Greek word for fixing or looking is aphorao and means to consider attentively.

To be honest, I have a problem with this idea of looking, because it implies distance, and distance suggests that I can never get close to God. Some churches I have been a part of, with their superstar pastors, have demonstrated what it is like to have a leader that is untouchable, and I have had more of that than I can stand. I have also, because of choices I made, experienced infidelity in marriage and divorce. The battle I had to fight was learning that God did not act like the people who have created false imagery in me. While God may never leave me, I sometimes wonder how embarrassed He is with how I talk or act. In the worst of conditions I have never experienced any distancing toward me on God's part, but I can assure you I have felt significantly distanced at times. There is no doubt in my mind that this distance I felt was because of my selfish indulgences.

The NET version says: "keeping our eyes fixed on Jesus,.." This version has pulled in both concepts; keeping our eyes on Jesus, and the idea of our fixation upon Him.

Why would you fix your eyes on something?

Detectives do it because they are on the hunt for something. Artists study or set their eyes upon a subject so that they can capture what they see. We, as believers, are told to fix our attention, vision, thoughts, and emotions upon Jesus because I believe that God wants us to live in a state of peace that passes understanding.

To be filled with peace, at a time when it is illogical, passes my understanding. Yet, having read this, and desired it, I find it easier to comprehend knowing that was God in the situation, though I did not know it, and He only wanted good for me.

Hebrews, the faith book, is meant to train us and establish us with the benefit of a solid information, and believable eyewitnesses. If I could equate this life to a trial, the evidence for the prosecution would be overwhelming and beyond a reasonable doubt. In reading Hebrews, I find out that the peace I just spoke of, requires faith, and is wrapped up in my faith.

Is it my faith or God's?

I suppose both. I have to exhibit some degree of faith in the process of accepting my position within the family of God; I have to act in faith upon God's promises to me to live in this world; And, God has placed His confidence in me that I will succeed and join Him in eternity. Example: There was a brief time in my life that I was keenly aware of a tremendous faith for healing.

How would I know that? I was a shy person who for the longest time was very timid. Speaking out boldly, or placing my hands upon someone for healing, would have been out of character for me. However, in several circumstances, I saw God's hand at work in extraordinary ways. Here is where the faith aspect comes in. God's word tells us to lay our hands on the sick, and they will recover. There is no emotion needed in that, merely obedience. The faith part is acting and letting God do what he said he would.

"Not with bodily eyes, for at present he is not to be looked upon in this manner, but with the eye of the understanding, or with the eye of faith; for faith is a seeing of the Son;" ( John Gill's Exposition of the Entire Bible)

Having read several commentaries on the passage, I agree with Gill. I believe that the intent is to focus on Jesus at all times and in every circumstance, but that seems impossible to do. When I was at work, I was barraged by customers, to the point that I barely had time for a thought of my own.

Where and how do I squeeze God into this hectic scene?

I know I am not alone in this struggle, because it is a human struggle, and it does not take a detective to realize that few people invest quality time with God to the degree that He becomes predominant in their thinking. For me to say, I am looking at Jesus with the eye of my faith makes it sound like I am very spiritual, although I sometimes wish I could be like Enoch and simply walk off the earth, that will never happen. In reality, this ability to stay focused on God seems to imply some act of our inward man that can operate aside from the circumstances the body is experiencing. What we are talking about here could be nothing more than the ability to reason, and that ability to reason would have to include the mind, would it not?

For the skeptics who think this inward man talk is something new age, I give you Paul's own words.

2 Corinthians 4:16 NASB 16) Therefore we do not lose heart, but though our outer man is decaying, yet our inner man is being renewed day by day.

If you consider our beginnings then this inward man idea may make more sense. In Genesis 1:27 we see God creating man in His image.

NASB “God created man in His own image, in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them.”

God's image is a spirit, therefore the man was a spirit, and, just like the Father, eternal. We don't see a body on the man until Genesis 2:7, after the completion of the earth.

John 4:23-24 NASB "But an hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth; for such people the Father seeks to be His worshipers. 24) "God is spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth."

This plays a role in our understanding of death as well, for the spirit never dies. Since the spirit never dies, then how did Adam understand this death that was to come upon him should he partake of the forbidden fruit? Because of the eternal nature of the spirit, death, in one regard, would have to mean eternal separation from the Father God. God, in the form of Jesus, had no intention of allowing that to happen as long as He could do something about it, and therefore, through Christ's activities in “death”, we were redeemed. Paul, in Ephesians, speaks of a mystery.

Ephesians 1:6-9 NASB to the praise of the glory of His grace, which He freely bestowed on us in the Beloved. 7) In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of His grace 8) which He lavished on us. In all wisdom and insight 9) He made known to us the mystery of His will, according to His kind intention which He purposed in Him.

It is almost overwhelming when you let it all sink in.

It would seem that the spirit, which wars against the flesh, can function independently of the body.

Galatians 5:17 NASB For the flesh sets its desire against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; for these are in opposition to one another, so that you may not do the things that you please.

If that is the case then I should be able to have a conversation with you and the Father at the same time. In truth, I am not that good. If I have too many conversations going on at the same time, then someone is going to lose in the battle for my attention.

I believe that Paul was speaking to this distinction between the spirit and the flesh when he wrote:

For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays, but my mind is unfruitful. 1 Corinthians 14:14 NASB

Perhaps I am missing the point. It may be that Paul is saying that the spirit bypasses human reasoning. I have never been able to pray in the spirit without involving my mind, as something had to initiate this conversation. That does not mean that if I am praying in the spirit (that means praying in tongues to me,) that I am always keenly aware of what I am praying, but I always have a general idea.

Do not despair at the apparent futility of this exercise of the tongue for James tells us that God gives wisdom to those that ask. Is he talking about understanding everything that you might say in tongues? Probably not, but at least we have the opportunity to understand a great deal of what we say in tongues.

Since the topic had to do with fixing our eyes on Jesus. I think we have found that there is so much more to this simplistic phrase. Fixing my eyes on Jesus entails all of me, body soul and spirit. And, the spirit wants to take a well-needed advantage of the desire to commune with the Father. Now, this is where I could move into an entire teaching on aspects of our communications with, not only the Father but the body of Christ as well.

Back to my struggles with fixing my eyes on Jesus (A funny thing happened as I wrote this. I slipped up and wrote ears instead of eyes; I have since fixed that error. Why that might be funny is because if we could hear what God is saying, and respond, then maybe we would be walking as Enoch did. We have no evidence that Enoch saw God. So then, any seeing would have been by faith. Hearing, on the other hand, is a different story altogether.)

So, as I was trying to deal with the continual onslaught of customers at work, I could at the same time be praying in the spirit on the inside If I can pray in the spirit, then I can have communication with the Father at the same time too. I think it would primarily be Him talking to me.

The trick in this is to fine-tune your listening skills.

You should be aware that there are too few of us that have any clue how to listen to others. With your insight, you picked up on something. How does one fine-tune their listening skills so that God becomes the focus? Prayer, which is merely conversations you are having with God, often on behalf of others; that, and spending time in His word. The words that God uses currently, are no different in theme, from those he has already spoken. Trust me on this one, God can speak your language. How many translations of the Bible are there?, many, and yet He has brought innumerable lives into the family by speaking their language or slang. There is always the skeptic who does not believe that God speaks all the time. While God is not just incessantly rambling to hear His head rattle, as we often do, but there is a purpose in everything He says.

Keep this in mind as you read your Bible; everything in that book has a purpose. For example, why does the Gospel of John emphasize things like the cloth that was folded so precisely in the tomb (there was a reason); why is the trip to Samaria a three-day journey?; Why did Jesus go to the Samaritans, they were effectively Gentiles, and going there was contrary to his stated mission? There are things that all throughout the Bible that seem like nothing and yet the Jewish leadership believes that when the Messiah returns (he already did) that he will explain even the spaces between the letters; they are that serious about God's word. If only we were that serious about His Word as well.

Concerning Eternal Security.

Bible study this morning touched briefly on the subject of eternal security. The man who leads bible study asked, how many of you believe in eternal security. Here is my take on this – if you do not stand for something, you will stand for nothing, and so I was the first to raise his hand. My codependent head anticipates no good coming out my actions, but you have to choose to be brave and do what the Holy Spirit tells you to do. While it went well, there are definitely differing opinions, but the man who got my attention was the brother who told about losing his son. He briefly recapped what that night was like and how the autopsy found alcohol in his boys system. A police officer stayed with the boy all the way to the hospital where he died. When the family made it to the hospital the officer told them, your son has made such an impact on my life, for apparently this young man, who was possibly criminally negligent, spoke of Jesus to the police officer all the way to the hospital before he died. In light of eternal security what does this tell me about this young man? God was not only, in him still, but all over him, and it is quite possible that Christ now lives in that police officer because of him.

At the end of the meeting one of the men came up to me and asked me, what then does Hebrews 6:4-8 mean. I still had the computer on and so I pulled it up quickly. I saw immediately where he was going with it, but he added something. He said, “I fell away for a time.” I responded with, so have I, so it definitely does not mean impossible, now does it. He sincerely wanted to understand, and because they now perceive me as bold and unafraid to challenge scripture he asked. I told him I would find the answer, and this is it.

Think on this - for it seems to speak in opposition to eternal security.

For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame. For the earth which drinketh in the rain that cometh oft upon it, and bringeth forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, receiveth blessing from God: But that which beareth thorns and briers is rejected, and is nigh unto cursing; whose end is to be burned. (Hebrews 6:4-8 KJV)

"it is impossible "

The translators of the King James Version of the Holy Bible intentionally preserved, in Early Modern English, archaic pronouns and verb endings that had already begun to fall out of spoken use. This enabled the English translators to convey the distinction between the 1st, 2nd and 3rd person singular and plural verb forms of the original Hebrew and Greek sources. (Photo credit: Wikipedia)

Immediately I am confronted by the difference between the KJV and the NASB. The NASB states the sentence like this.

For in the case of those who have once been enlightened and have tasted of the heavenly gift and have been made partakers of the Holy Spirit, (Hebrews 6:4 NASB)

They bypass the concept of impossibility. Why?

Here is NASB with the references to the Strong's numbers. Something is clearly missing, or did the KJV unnecessarily added it.

For in the case of thoseG3588 who have onceG530 been R1enlightenedG5461 and have tastedG1089 of R2the heavenlyG2032 giftG1431 and have beenG1096 madeG1096 R3partakersG3353 of the HolyG40 SpiritG4151, (Hebrews 6:4 NASB+)

Now, compare this with the KJV:

ForG1063 it is impossibleG102 for those who were once enlightened,G5461 G530 andG5037 have tastedG1089 of theG3588 heavenlyG2032 gift,G1431 andG2532 were madeG1096 partakersG3353 of the HolyG40 Ghost,G4151 (Hebrews 6:4 KJV+)

Look at the word impossible in KJV. The reference is to the Greek word adunatos. From G1 (as a negative particle) and G1415; unable, that is, weak (literally or figuratively); passively impossible: - could not do, impossible, impotent, not possible, weak.

G1 – A al'-fah Of Hebrew origin; the first letter of the alphabet: figuratively only (from its use as a numeral) the first.

G1415 – dunatos doo-nat-os' - From G1410; powerful or capable (literally or figuratively); neuter possible: - able, could, (that is) mighty (man), possible, power, strong.

Is possible that the KJV is wrong? Let's see. We will go to the Septuagint, from which the KJV was derived.

adunatonG102 A-NSN garG1063 CONJ tousG3588 T-APM apaxG530 ADV photisthentasG5461 V-APP-APM geusamenousG1089 V-ADP-APM teG5037 PRT tesG3588 T-GSF doreasG1431 N-GSF tesG3588 T-GSF epouraniouG2032 A-GSF kaiG2532 CONJ metochousG3353 A-APM genethentasG1096 V-AOP-APM pneumatosG4151 N-GSN agiouG40 A-GSN (Hebrews 6:4 LXX-BYZ)

There it is right there, the very first word. Impossible?

As I mentioned, the brother in Christ that pointed this out to me, added, I fell away. I responded with, so did I, and yet I would not doubt for a moment that this man is a man of God who loves the Lord. I know I do. However, if I allow myself to compare myself with others, especially those who have fame and money, the junk we foolishly we think we are entitled to because of false teachings, I will collapse into myself, overwhelmed by self doubts. That is what my codependent head leads toward. This makes me think impossible is not the concept they are trying to convey, or we are just missing the point.

Let's look at the context of the statement and see if we can sort it out.

For it is impossible for those once having been enlightened, and having tasted of the heavenly gift, and becoming sharers of the Holy Spirit, and tasting the good Word of God, and the works of power of a coming age, and having fallen away, it is impossible for them again to renew to repentance, crucifying again for themselves the Son of God, and putting Him to open shame. (For the earth drinking in the rain often coming upon it, and producing vegetation suitable for those for whom it is also worked, receives blessing from God; "but bearing thorns and thistles," it is deemed unfit and near a curse, of which the end is for burning.) Gen. 3:17, 18 But, loved ones, even if we indeed speak so, we have been persuaded better things concerning you, even holding fast salvation. (Hebrews 6:4-9 LITV)

“For it is impossible” I think we already have the comprehension that impossible is too strong of a word for what the Holy Spirit is trying to convey.

We pointed out that adunatos means unable or weak, as well as passively impossible. But what are we really trying to say.

“Let us first consider the subject of these verses. The writer described certain people with four phrases: (1) once enlightened, (2) experienced the good things of heaven, (3) shared in the Holy Spirit, and (4) tasted the goodness of the word of God and the power of the age to come.” Life Application New Testament Commentary

When you take in all aspects, as the commentators have, it sounds like the person in question has experienced the full life in Christ. These people are unable to renew themselves again to repentance.

Heb 6:6  If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance;

Another example that conveys the same idea, from the same writer.

For if we sin willfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remains no more sacrifice for sins, (Hebrews 10:26 KJV)

Since Hebrews 10:26 speaks of a sacrifice for sins then we put this idea of impossibility or inability into the realm of a sacrifice. If we were living under the law, there would be lambs still to be slaughtered; that was common place under the law, but we are not under the law, and Jesus Christ, the Lamb, became the last and final sacrifice for sins which separated us from God. We, for some reason, seem to reject this, or ignore it.

So the person who continually comes down front, presenting themselves each week as a sinner, not covered by the grace of God, tends to make God look like a fool, as they expect someone to hang Jesus on the cross for them once again. What is the problem here? Perhaps it lies in what we are or are not telling people.

Paul shows up in a town and this is the message that he preaches – your sins are forgiven and you now have a hope that He will come back for you and receive you into heaven with Him and the Father - no matter how stupid you have been .

If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame. (Hebrews 6:6 KJV)

“seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.”

This is very close to what we see in Hebrews 10:26. Our efforts to present ourselves each week, a crying baby that needs its diaper changed because we chose to go roll around in the mud pit that the world offered, demonstrating that we do not understanding this hope that is ours. Know this, you will not get Jesus Christ to put himself back on the cross for you. To ask him to do so is like saying that his sacrifice was not enough for, or you just do not believe what he did.

There is no doubt that we fall into sin, but is not always premeditated. None the less, it still gets us all muddied up, doesn't it. Does that change how God sees you? Absolutely not! Do you need to get washed up? Certainly. It is only natural for people to cringe when you are covered in mud, trying to hold a conversation with civilized people. So, if you cannot go running back to the cross in an effort to re-crucify Christ what do you do? You repent. In other words own your actions, admit that you are powerless over your own life, and turn your life over to God, yes, once again. Tell God about your failures, talk to him, admit your wrong, and then make a concerted effort to get to know his character through his word, allowing the water of the Word of God wash you.

Jesus, in John 13:4-10 knew full well the nonsense Judas and Peter would pull, and yet he did not berate them, telling either they were eternally lost. He merely pointed out that they were clean because of Him, and merely needed to wash their feet from time to time.

He rose from supper, and laid aside his garments; and took a towel, and girded himself. After that he poured water into a basin, and began to wash the disciples' feet, and to wipe them with the towel wherewith he was girded. Then comes he to Simon Peter: and Peter saith unto him, Lord, dost thou wash my feet? Jesus answered and said unto him, What I do thou know not now; but thou shalt know hereafter. Peter saith unto him, Thou shalt never wash my feet. Jesus answered him, If I wash thee not, thou hast no part with me. Simon Peter saith unto him, Lord, not my feet only, but also my hands and my head. Jesus saith to him, He that is washed needs not save to wash his feet, but is clean every whit: and ye are clean, but not all. (John 13:4-10 KJV)

Paul, pointed out in 1Corinthians 6:11 that those who had come to knowledge of Christ through his teaching, were washed and set aside for God's good work, in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ.

And such were some of you. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God. (1 Corinthians 6:11 ESV)

To the Ephesian church he compared the believer to the wife, the bride of Christ. In that comparison he points out that we are cleansed and washed by the water of the word. He did this so that we could be presented to himself in splendor.

Husbands, love your wives, as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her, that he might sanctify her, having cleansed her by the washing of water with the word, so that he might present the church to himself in splendor, without spot or wrinkle or any such thing, that she might be holy and without blemish. (Ephesians 5:25-27 ESV)

There is one last aspect I need to cover. The writer of Hebrews compared this same person to a once productive field, but now bears thorns.

(For the earth drinking in the rain often coming upon it, and producing vegetation suitable for those for whom it is also worked, receives blessing from God; "but bearing thorns and thistles," it is deemed unfit and near a curse, of which the end is for burning.) (Hebrews 6:7-8 LITV)

Notice that the verse says, “but”. But implies the potential, or a time of neglect. No field is free of weeds, they are always controlled. The mere fact that the wind blows, or birds fly guarantees that you will have weeds at some time. However, the good gardener, or land owner, knows what crop they planted and therefore pulls up things that were not intentional. This is what we do, and we use the word of God to help with that. If you realize that you simply do not have the strength to remove your own weeds then you need to get around people who have strengthened themselves, through trials, and God's word, and allow them to help you. It is called humbling yourself.

As the bible study came to an end I raised my hand once again and said, I am not even sure why we have to have this conversation, because as a believer I have no intention of doing anything but pursue Jesus Christ, and I dare you to try to strip that salvation out of me. I believe Jesus was speaking to something along this line when he told the listeners this parable:

Again, the kingdom of Heaven is compared to treasure being hidden in the field, which finding, a man hid; and for the joy of it, he goes and sells all things, as many as he has, and buys that field. (Matthew 13:44 LITV)

For me, Jesus was that treasure and many years ago,I stumbled upon it. Having finally found what I was looking for I bought the field and have no intentions of giving it up. I suspect the Word of God is that field, and Jesus is the treasure. Fortunately, He presents himself, and offers himself to all. The result of accepting, or should I say, buying the field, is the joy in knowing that you now have a permanent hope and a knowledge that you will spend eternity with him, if you allow him in. I suggest you give him, on a daily basis, all the corners of your heart.

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