Showing posts with label after these things. Show all posts
Showing posts with label after these things. Show all posts

Friday, November 28, 2025

Answers for Rick. The leaves of the tree are for the healing of the nations. Revelation 22.

 Another typical morning with the guys – (This took place several years ago.)

The “leader” of the group (Just for fun, I will refer to him as “Bob ”) finally sits down and says,

“I would like everyone to look at Revelation 22:3.”

He continues to say,

“I am having a problem with this.”


If there were no further explanation on the part of Bob, then all that is left is a man who is refusing the truth of God's word. Without a reasonable explanation, the only person who is wrong in this discussion is Bob. 

How would I know anything about something like this? 

For a time, I was the co-leader of a men's bible study. One of the men, who had already had a verbal and mental collision with church leadership because he was having intimate phone conversations with the wife of a church elder, told me, after I read a scripture passage, "I take umbrage with that." To be honest, I had no idea what that word meant. I returned the following week with a definition and a dislike for someone who could use that word as a challenge to God's word.

Vocabulary.com defines umbrage in this manner. "When someone takes umbrage 

at something, they find it offensive, and it probably makes them angry."

 

So, with no further explanation, we all jumped in.

I will give you the passage from the ASV:

(1) “Then I saw an angel coming down from heaven, having the key to the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand. (2) He laid hold of the dragon, that serpent of old, who is the Devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years; (3) and he cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal on him, so that he should deceive the nations no more till the thousand years were finished. But after these things he must be released for a little while.”
(Rev 22:1-3 NKJV)

Let's camp here for a moment.

I would not have put forth such an interruption of the discussion without giving some attention to not only the context of the passage, but also why it was bothering me. (To be honest, I cannot remember if “Bob” was able to elaborate, with reason, what was bothering him about the passage at hand.)

Some might read Revelation 22:3 and rejoice over what finally appears to be a perfect environment where Satan gets locked up for a thousand years, and is unable to torment or drive the nations to sin. 

(As a disappointing side note, I often imagine that the thousand years will fly by only to see Satan released, even if momentarily, to deceive the nations.)

Assuming I was foolish enough to focus on verse three alone, I would be quickly confronted by several unidentified characters. The first of which is “he”, and he happens to be casting “him” (the second character) into the bottomless pit. This action prevents this “him” from deceiving the nations for a thousand years. I suppose I could assume that this kind of action from “him” has been causing destruction and havoc before the thousand years; and, as we see at the end of the paragraph, the deception that this “him” pushes on people re-emerges to deceive the nations once again – for a very short time.

The cast of characters in this verse.

  • “he” is Jesus.

    We typically see references to Jesus and God capitalized. Since the Revelation is a revealing of Jesus, then “he”, in this case, is rightly presumed to be Jesus.

    Revelation 1:1 tells us that the entire book reveals Jesus, the Son of God.

  • “him,” which we saw as we began reading Revelation 22:3, is Satan.

    Satan has had many names in Scripture, such as the dragon, the serpent, the beast, and the deceiver, just to name a few.

  • And finally, the nations.

    We can understand that the nations have been part of the narrative long before the thousand years and remain present during the thousand years. It is these people who are deceived for a brief time at the end of the thousand years.

One of the greatest sources of trouble for the Christian community is the nations.

Who are we talking about when we speak of the Gentiles or the nations?

  • The Gentiles and the nations are, for the most part, synonymous.

  • The Jewish community considers anyone outside of Judaism to be a Gentile.

  • I suppose, by Jewish standards, we who have been grafted into God's family are all still a subset of the nations; thankfully, that is not the case.

  • Any Jewish follower of Christ is now a part of the family of God and an aspect of the bride of Christ.

  • The Messianic followers will be caught up when Jesus returns (soon) to collect His bride.

Caught is the Greek word harpazo.

Do a word search and you will NOT find the word rapture in our common bible translations; you may, however, find the Latin word rapio or rapturo; and, depending upon who is doing the talking, you will find that the word rapio or rapturo is transliterated into rapture. For the skeptics, the rapture is therefore an aspect of our scriptural basis for being gathered to Him.

A synonym for harpazo is paralambánō (It is the Strong's Greek number 3880), and it means to receive up. It is also seen as snatched, plucked, seized, and taken.


Let me take this one confusing step further. 

If my thoughts about this passage are wrong, then is it possible that much of what I think about God is wrong also. Openness like this may surprise you, but I have found many of my deeply rooted ideas about God to be wrong, and this realization has changed my perception of God.

I have actually found God to be more merciful than I ever thought possible.


Consider Jonah. Jonah committed suicide in an effort to avoid doing what God asked him to do. (Read the story!) Sorry if the word suicide gives you grief, but there really is no other way to look at the narrative about Jonah.

Choosing to run from God, an impossible task, the small vessel upon which he has purchased passage is about to sink in the Mediterranean Ocean; the wind and the waves were such that they were about to break the boat into pieces, and in that case, everyone would die. The crew takes extraordinary measures to survive, to no avail, and it seems that all will soon be lost. The crew casts lots, much like throwing dice, to see if they can figure out who is to blame, and the dice point to Jonah. Jonah informs the crew that he is the reason for their dire situation and that they should throw him into the deadly ocean. Jonah demands that they throw him into the waves, and then they will be saved. Notice that he did not have the backbone to do it himself. After much argument, the crew did as he said. Jonah disappeared out of sight and under the water. Moments later, the storm goes silent, and the waves eventually cease.

Having been thrown into a raging sea, where is Jonah?

God had prepared a great fish to swallow him whole. This is NOT a fairy tale, and there is a fish in the Mediterranean capable of swallowing a human. But we humans, lacking oxygen, black out after 15 seconds and go brain dead after four minutes; therefore, Jonah is now dead. 

Three days later (that is one whole day and any part of two other days), the fish, at God's command, vomits Jonah on the beach nearest to Nineveh (which happens to be over 300 miles away, inland). That means that God brought Jonah back to life on the shore.

Jonah went ahead and completed his mission. The Ninevites repented, and God relented (for a time).


What was the last thing we heard from Jonah?

“I knew you would be merciful to them.”

God operated outside of Jonah’s mental constructs of judgment and punishment.
Easy now, do not think for a moment that God withdrew his judgment. God merely withheld His judgment, and Nineveh was eventually turned into a pile of rubble and rightfully so, for they were a vile, brutal people, and Jonah knew this.

I recognize that the idea of God shaking your deep-seated religious foundations scares many of you, and you may think it blasphemous to even consider the possibility of shaking your foundation because you think contemplating Scripture from a logical point of view might make you turn away from God, and then what will you turn to?

If your confidence in God is that unstable, then you need to ask yourself what your foundation is built upon.

Is your faith built upon truth? 

(An understanding of truth requires that you spend time in God's word with the purposeful intention of finding out who He is.) Or fiction? (Things you heard, merely accepted, and never determined to research these things – in the scriptures, for yourself.) If that is the case, then let me remind you that Jesus told us that our beliefs and works will be tested in the fire, and the junk will be burned up.

Peter talks about your faith being tested by fire so that, in time, you will be filled with an inexpressible joy. I like that idea, but the question, I suppose, is when?

1Pe 1:6-8 NASB “In this you greatly rejoice, even though now for a little while, if necessary, you have been distressed by various trials, (7) so that the proof of your faith, being more precious than gold which is perishable, even though tested by fire, may be found to result in praise and glory and honor at the revelation of Jesus Christ; (8) and though you have not seen Him, you love Him, and though you do not see Him now, but believe in Him, you greatly rejoice with joy inexpressible and full of glory,”


Paul wrote to the church in Corinth about the solid foundation that he laid, in and for them. Some, having come after, tried to lay other foundations. Of course, these others did not tell you they had every intention of corrupting your faith and leading you away from the freedom we find when we put our faith in Christ.

1Co 3:11-15 NASB “For no man can lay a foundation other than the one which is laid, which is Jesus Christ. (12) Now if any man builds on the foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw, (13) each man's work will become evident; for the day will show it because it is to be revealed with fire, and the fire itself will test the quality of each man's work. (14) If any man's work which he has built on it remains, he will receive a reward. (15) If any man's work is burned up, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.

Paul describes these faulty foundations as wood, hay, and straw - things that will burn. Isn't that an intriguing thought?

Someday soon, we, as followers of Christ, will all stand before the judgment seat of Christ (the Bema seat), where those things that are of no value in the heavenly kingdom will be burned up.

What if you could, in a sense, burn up some of that junk down here, for example: get your thinking hat back on straight, and start giving the people around you reasons to live for the King.

The discussion with Bob was far too brief, with no real answers, as the good Doctor of Humanities showed up.

The questions coming from Bob were effectively two.

  • The minor question, based upon his American Standard version: What is the tense when it says, “the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.”

    I am not a grammarian, so bear with me.

    Since the “trees” (plural) are a future event, then I could assume that it is a future tense reference. However, the actions and results from the usage of the leaves are in the present tense, once we get there.

    Our resident grammarian, an expert on Greek and a person quite knowledgeable about church history, expounded on the tense (it is present tense, by the way).

    I suppose the more logical questions might be:

    • What are the parameters that control our usage of these leaves?

    • And when do we get to use them?

  • The major question is: “Why do the nations need healing if we then live in heaven, a perfect, sin free place?”

    I had been looking at end times events (Eschatology) for some time now and thought I had it clear, so I responded immediately with, “because you are not looking at heaven at this point.”

    To be honest, I had not looked at the passages in some time, even though I had opened to them.

    Bob's caustic response was, “Yes! We are, look at the previous verses in chapters 20 and 21.” So I did.

      - Rev 20:3 NASB and he threw him into the abyss, and shut it and sealed it over him, so that he would not deceive the nations any longer, until the thousand years were completed; after these things he must be released for a short time.


    Why even talk about the actions that Jesus takes – throwing Satan into the abyss, with the specific purpose of NOT allowing him to deceive the nations, unless the nations are an active part of the thousand years?


      Rev 20:4 NASB:    "Then I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was given to them. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony of Jesus and because of the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received the mark on their forehead and on their hand; and they came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years."

    If, as one of the false teachers that I have known, stated, “only Christians enter the millennial reign,” then who are these that are seated upon thrones judging, applying their judgments upon?

    Well, it is certainly NOT Christians, as all the judgment that we deserved was placed upon Jesus, on the cross. That only leaves the nations. It is assumptive to think that the nations are stripped of their free choice, or that they have Christianity imposed upon them; they are, however, required to participate in the feast of booths, but you can submit to that demand without having a change of heart.

      Rev 22:14 NASB:   Blessed are those who wash their robes, so that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter by the gates into the city.

    Obviously, there are those who do have a change of heart; they are called blessed, and they have the right to the tree of life and NOW have entrance into the city of God.

      Rev 22:15 NASB:   Outside are the dogs and the sorcerers and the immoral persons and the murderers and the idolaters, and everyone who loves and practices lying.

    Since verse 14 is speaking of those who, by washing their robes, making them white, gain entrance into the city of God, then the term “outside” is referring to those from among the nations, living outside the city walls.

    While verse 14 makes it distinct that some have a change of heart, verse 15 makes it clear that others do not change; they are known as dogs, sorcerers, immoral persons, murderers, idolaters, and those who love and practice lying. Here then is your definition of the nations, and this is what they continue to do, without Satan driving them, throughout the 1000 years.

I opted to try to sort out this concept of why healing would be needed in heaven, or not.

If I am wrong, and it appeared, lacking solid scriptural backing, that I might have been, then I admit to you that I hate being wrong. (There, I got that out of my system.) The worst part of this, and I think this is what was bothering Bob, is that suddenly things were not what he visualized them to be.

Heaven does not seem to be this la-la land where we dance around aimlessly in fields of clover. Life, for many, seems to just keep going on. This statement, in my mind, applies primarily to the nations.

To be honest, this concept of heaven is throwing me for a loop as well. What is even worse, this is not the first time I have seen something like this, which challenges almost everything I have come to understand (from Sunday School) about heaven.

I thought I had this one figured out. Fortunately, I had to leave early because the good Doctor of Humanities was now heavily involved and had us chasing rabbits down endless trails, and I hate wasting precious time.

The day had moved on into evening when, like a light bulb coming on, it occurred to me that I had read a description of the millennial kingdom that speaks of the city of God coming down from God, composed of the Saints. 

The key here is that upon Satan’s release after the thousand years, he deceives those nations, and they try to do battle with God and the Saints of God. This battle is the Gog and Magog war that ends rather quickly with God destroying them, and then comes the white throne judgment.

I gather you figured out that this is not a three-minute discourse.

If I only focus on the timeline account in Revelation 22, I might miss something here.

Open your Bibles, if you haven't as yet, and look at Revelation 20:1-2. I am giving it to you in segments.

Rev 20:1,2 (NKJV): “Then I saw an angel coming down from heaven, having the key to the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand. (2) He (that angel) laid hold of the dragon, that serpent of old, who is the Devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years.”

This is the beginning of the thousand-year period, which we call the millennial reign.

The man who led the Monday morning men's bible study at the church I grew up in had this to say about whom we would find in the millennial kingdom. (These are some of the things that made him a false teacher.)

He claimed that:

  • Only Christians enter the 1000-year reign.

  • No Jews would enter the millennial kingdom.

  • And no one from the nations would gain entrance.

The only way you can hold these absurd positions is to cease to read what the Bible says, cling tightly to religious traditions and false teachings, and allow the Devil more space in your head and heart than you give to the Holy Spirit.

Allow me to destroy these positions.

First, “Only Christians get to enter the 1000 year reign.”

Here are four verses that speak to the fact that the nations are still alive during the thousand-year reign, all of which I previously elaborated on.

Rev 20:3 NASB: "and he threw him into the abyss, and shut it and sealed it over him, so that he would not deceive the nations any longer, until the thousand years were completed; after these things he must be released for a short time."

Rev 20:4 NASB: "Then I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was given to them. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony of Jesus and because of the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received the mark on their forehead and on their hand; and they came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years."

Rev 22:14 NASB: "Blessed are those who wash their robes, so that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter by the gates into the city."

Rev 22:15 NASB: "Outside are the dogs and the sorcerers and the immoral persons and the murderers and the idolaters, and everyone who loves and practices lying."

I made the statement that this is not heaven. That is NOT exactly true, because for the followers of Christ, eternity will have begun with the catching away of the Church.

A logical approach as to whether the earth, during the thousand years, is heaven and nothing further needs to happen is wrapped up in the fact that the earth has NOT burned up, which plays an important role in this thought. One of the major methods of purifying the earth is to burn the planet with fire, and that cannot happen until after the final, great white throne judgment. I say this because it is after this judgment that there will be no air-breathers left to concern the heart of God.

The second pathetic point of view is this: “No Jews would enter the millennial kingdom.”

Let's start by pointing out the obvious – the 144,000 Jewish virgins who take on the role of being Jewish evangelists exclusively to the Jews will enter the millennial kingdom, with no restrictions. I wonder why that is? The answers are rather obvious.

Rev 7:3-4 NASB says, "Do not harm the earth or the sea or the trees until we have sealed the bond-servants of our God on their foreheads." (4) And I heard the number of those who were sealed, one hundred and forty-four thousand sealed from every tribe of the sons of Israel:"

Continue reading in Revelation 7, and you will find that many, due to the 144,000, will wash their robes and, because they are slaughtered for their testimony, will stand before the throne.

Ezekiel chapter five, twice, speaks of one third surviving the onslaughts of God's wrath. It seems obvious that one-third of Israel will walk alive into the thousand-year reign.

Ezekiel 5:2 NASB: "One third you shall burn in the fire at the center of the city, when the days of the siege are completed. Then you shall take one third and strike it with the sword all around the city, and one third you shall scatter to the wind; and I will unsheathe a sword behind them."

Ask yourself, why would you unsheathe a sword behind those survivors? The answer is because He protects them as they enter the 1000-year reign.

Ezekiel 5:12 expands the parameters of God's destruction.

Ezekiel 5:12-13 NASB: 'One third of you will die by plague or be consumed by famine among you, one third will fall by the sword around you, and one third I will scatter to every wind, and I will unsheathe a sword behind them. (13) 'Thus My anger will be spent, and I will satisfy My wrath on them, and I will be appeased; then they will know that I, the LORD, have spoken in My zeal when I have spent My wrath upon them."

If you understand basic math, then you know that you can only split something into thirds three times. So events like burning in fire and dying by plague or famine may be overlapping descriptions of death. One-third survives.

Look at the words John dictated in the Revelation.

'But you have a few people in Sardis who have not soiled their garments; and they will walk with Me in white, for they are worthy. 'He who overcomes will thus be clothed in white garments; and I will not erase his name from the book of life, and I will confess his name before My Father and before His angels. 'He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.'
(Rev 3:4-6 NASB)

So Jesus is NOT merely speaking to followers from the church in Sardis; He is talking to anyone who overcomes and confesses His name.

Can you read something like Isaiah 14:1 and still say that NO Jew will enter the millennial kingdom? I would think not.

Isaiah 14:1 NAS95 When the LORD will have compassion on Jacob and again choose Israel, and settle them in their own land, then strangers will join them and attach themselves to the house of Jacob.

By the way, when does this take place? There is only one time period when strangers will join them and attach themselves to the house of Jacob, and that is during the 1000 years.

God, and by extension, Jesus, has promised to restore Israel to their land. Some might say, He already did that in 1948 when Israel became a nation. Then why is America, of all people, working so hard to split Jerusalem?

Deuteronomy 30:3-5 NAS95: "Then the LORD your God will restore you from captivity, and have compassion on you, and will gather you again from all the peoples where the LORD your God has scattered you. (4) "If your outcasts are at the ends of the earth, from there the LORD your God will gather you, and from there He will bring you back. (5) "The LORD your God will bring you into the land which your fathers possessed, and you shall possess it; and He will prosper you and multiply you more than your fathers."

Look at Isaiah 25.

Isaiah 25:8-9 NASB: "He will swallow up death for all time, and the Lord GOD will wipe tears away from all faces, and He will remove the reproach of His people from all the earth; For the LORD has spoken. (9) And it will be said in that day, "Behold, this is our God for whom we have waited that He might save us. This is the LORD for whom we have waited; Let us rejoice and be glad in His salvation."

Where does this transpire?

Only after the seven years of wrath, as they, the Jews, enter the millennial kingdom.

Have you ever said, What is it that possesses those people to do that? The answer is they have a veil over their eyes and therefore refuse to see. Isaiah 25:7 tells us that the veil is lifted off of everyone, and yes, it includes the Jews.

Isaiah 25:7 NASB And on this mountain He will swallow up the covering which is over all peoples, even the veil which is stretched over all nations.

Critics, and there are always critics, will say something like, What mountain. The answer to the challenge is this:

Isaiah 24:23 BSB The moon will be confounded, and the sun will be ashamed; for the LORD of Hosts will reign on Mount Zion and in Jerusalem, and before His elders with great glory.

And finally, the last neanderthal like statement: “No one from the nations would gain entrance into the millennial kingdom.

Merely consider this aspect once again.

Revelation 22:2 NAS95 in the middle of its street. On either side of the river was the tree of life, bearing twelve kinds of fruit, yielding its fruit every month; and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.

If you take the time to read the context surrounding this passage, then you would understand that the nations are there, and available to have these leaves applied. But since we have already covered this last aspect in great detail, and even though there are many more passages to back up this understanding, I will refrain from pursuing it any further.

The admonitions to the seven churches, the church age, begin in Revelation chapter one and come to an end with Revelation 4:1. As you can see, Revelation 4:1 declares, “After these things.”

Rev 4:1 NASB “After these things I looked, and behold, a door standing open in heaven, and the first voice which I had heard, like the sound of a trumpet speaking with me, said, 'Come up here, and I will show you what must take place after these things."

What are the things? It is the church age, and 4:1 begins spelling out the wrath of God, minus the church, upon those on earth who, up to this point, have rejected God. So, while the church age ends along with the time of grace, the time of wrath begins. The thousand-year reign is still seven years away.

Consider that an uncountable multitude will continue to follow after Jesus during the time of wrath; these will be resurrected, called saints, and will stand before the throne of God.

Rev 7:9-15 NASB “After these things I looked, and behold, a great multitude which no one could count, from every nation and all tribes and peoples and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed in white robes, and palm branches were in their hands; (10) and they cry out with a loud voice, saying, "Salvation to our God who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb." (11) And all the angels were standing around the throne and around the elders and the four living creatures; and they fell on their faces before the throne and worshiped God, (12) saying, "Amen, blessing and glory and wisdom and thanksgiving and honor and power and might, be to our God forever and ever. Amen." (13) Then one of the elders answered, saying to me, "These who are clothed in the white robes, who are they, and where have they come from?" (14) I said to him, "My lord, you know." And he said to me, "These are the ones who come out of the great tribulation, and they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. (15) "For this reason, they are before the throne of God; and they serve Him day and night in His temple; and He who sits on the throne will spread His tabernacle over them.

I am exhibiting Revelation 7:9-15 because even Jesus himself wants us to see that the great crowd, pointed out to be every tongue and tribe under the heavens, is coming. Though they will now be in the family of God, they are from the nations.

Take note:

(Revelation 20:7-9 NIV) When the thousand years are over, Satan will be released from his prison and will go out to deceive the nations in the four corners of the earth--Gog and Magog--and to gather them for battle. In number, they are like the sand on the seashore. They marched across the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of God's people, the city he loves. But fire came down from heaven and devoured them.

Recap:

  • The thousand years have passed

  • Satan is released for a time.

      We have no definition of how long this takes.

  • Satan deceives the nations, who are many, diverse, and by their own choice, not committed to God. (Get that?)

  • These deceived combatants surround the camp of God’s people, the city He loves. Focus with me on this last line for a moment. Within it are some aspects you should consider.

  • The nations are coming to do battle with God’s people.

  • They (the combatants) completely surround the camp of God’s people, the city he loves.

    The wording that we see in Revelation 20:9 does not effectively change from one translation to the next; it is this notion that the city and God’s people are one in the same.  

What is clear from this is that God really loves us, his people.


Friday, February 26, 2021

And behold a throne, the 24 elders. Revelation 4:1-11.

 We closed our 'quick' look at Revelation chapters 1-3, with this, “those who have ears, let them hear what the Spirit is saying to the churches.” He is not just talking to the Pastors, who have some form of authority over the congregants; he is talking to you and me as well.

There is a problem, we are lukewarm, to the point that God will vomit us out of His mouth, but it can be fixed, and you fix it by being proactive and telling people that He is coming soon; here are the signs and you need to prepare your heart to greet Him. (You do this by accepting Jesus to be your life.)

Let's assume the rapture has taken place; therefore, the common but logical assumption is that the church is now with Jesus, in the heavens.

Revelation 4:1 CJB “After these things, I looked; and there before me was a door standing open in heaven; and the voice like a trumpet which I had heard speaking with me before said, "Come up here, and I will show you what must happen after these things.”

What happens next?

No one with a sound mind can tell you how rapidly any of these events will take place. They can't tell you because the rapidity is NOT laid out in scripture; this, however, plays into a problem we have, as we tend to see these biblical events/stories in 15-minute increments, and there is nothing to say it must happen that way.

Revelation 4:2-3 NASB “Immediately I was in the Spirit; and behold, a throne was standing in heaven, and One sitting on the throne. (3) And He who was sitting was like a jasper stone and a sardius in appearance; and there was a rainbow around the throne, like an emerald in appearance.”

When I went through my introduction, I believe I mentioned that the Revelation was a very Jewish book. If I did not, then I am telling you now. If you wish to understand it, you have to try to think like a Jew, and the primary source of information is still today, the Old Testament. When the Jews heard these words that we see in Revelation 4:2-3, their thoughts turned immediately to Ezekiel's writings. It would help if you also kept in mind that they had NO Bibles (no scrolls) and NO chapters and verses. The passage selection was the Rabbi’s option and was read in the Synagogue that Saturday and rehearsed throughout their lives, hopefully building it into your memory.

So, what did Ezekiel give them?

(Ezekiel 1:26-28 NASB) “Now above the expanse that was over their heads there was something resembling a throne, like lapis lazuli in appearance; and on that which resembled a throne, high up, was a figure with the appearance of a man. Then I noticed from the appearance of His loins and upward something like glowing metal that looked like fire all around within it, and from the appearance of His loins and downward I saw something like fire, and there was a radiance around Him. As the appearance of the rainbow in the clouds on a rainy day, so was the appearance of the surrounding radiance. Such was the appearance of the likeness of the glory of the LORD. And when I saw it, I fell on my face and heard a voice speaking.”

Just for fun, Sardius and Jasper have a very similar look, with a coloration much like fire, and in many cases are often aggregated in nature. Now it gets interesting.

Page one.

Revelation 4:4 NASB “Around the throne were twenty-four thrones; and upon the thrones, I saw twenty-four elders sitting, clothed in white garments, and golden crowns on their heads.”

I struggled for years to understand what I read in Revelation 4:4. This drive to grasp what we see here motivated me to sit through three sermons of a seven-week series, given by a former Pastor, on Revelation. When he got to the elders, he merely said, the twenty-four elders are the church, and quickly moved on with no further explanation. I had had enough, and I quit this pastor and that church.

Several years later, I heard Pastor John MacArthur teach on this very thing, but this time there was an explanation and, it made sense. Let me try to explain it to you.

This is essentially what John MacArthur said about the elders.

“Their joint rule with Christ, their white garments (Rev_19:7-8), and their golden crowns (Rev_2:10) all seem to indicate that these twenty-four represent the redeemed (Rev_4:9-11; Rev_5:5-14; Rev_7:11-17; Rev_11:16-18; Rev_14:3; Rev_19:4).”

Let's see if these passages that Pastor John gives us define the church as the elders.

Revelation 19:7-8 NASB "Let us rejoice and be glad and give the glory to Him, for the marriage of the Lamb has come and His bride has made herself ready." It was given to her to clothe herself in fine linen, bright and clean, for the fine linen is the righteous acts of the saints.”

When we look back at Revelation 4:4, we see them “clothed in white garments.” I give you a portion of Esther's story, for it demonstrates that the linen, made from flax, is white.

Esther 1:5-6 NASB When these days were completed, the king gave a banquet lasting seven days for all the people who were present at the citadel in Susa, from the greatest to the least, in the court of the garden of the king's palace. (6) There were hangings of fine white and violet linen held by cords of fine purple linen on silver rings and marble columns, and couches of gold and silver on a mosaic pavement of porphyry, marble, mother-of-pearl, and precious stones

And there is in Ezekiel a description of how the Levitical priests were to be dressed.

Ezekiel 44:15-17 NASB "But the Levitical priests, the sons of Zadok, who kept charge of My sanctuary when the sons of Israel went astray from Me, shall come near to Me to minister to Me; and they shall stand before Me to offer Me the fat and the blood," declares the Lord GOD. (16) "They shall enter My sanctuary; they shall come near to My table to minister to Me and keep My charge. (17) "It shall be that when they enter at the gates of the inner court, they shall be clothed with linen garments; and wool shall not be on them while they are ministering in the gates of the inner court and in the house.

And though you may not feel like it, this passage from Ezekiel applies to us, at some point, as Jesus did this through His actions on the cross.

Revelation 1:6 NLT He has made us a Kingdom of priests for God his Father. All glory and power to him forever and ever! Amen.

Page two.

There are always those who resist the truth, and I did tell you to look to the Old Testament for confirmation, so I give you Exodus 19.

Exodus 19:5-6 NLT Now if you will obey me and keep my covenant, you will be my own special treasure from among all the peoples on earth; for all the earth belongs to me. (6) And you will be my kingdom of priests, my holy nation.’ This is the message you must give to the people of Israel.”

It is looking more like these 24 elders are the church with every passing minute.

Both Exodus 3:16 and Deuteronomy 31:28 speak of the elders being gathered before Moses. As a young man, I went to a Katherine Kuhlman meeting at the Angelus Temple in Los Angeles. When the doors opened, and we were right at one of the doors, the crowd pushed hard so they could get up front, next to Ms. Kuhlman. In this crazed state, we had to get an old lady off the ground so that she did not get trampled. Imagine all Israel trying to get to Moses. From reading the Bible, it is evident that God is inclusive, and no one will be left out. I still struggle to grasp how WE are a part of this group of elders unless they represent us.

I am going to be painfully honest here. I have NEVER felt included in anything until I met Jesus. Sadly, the imagery that I have of heaven is frequently tainted with these broken thoughts. Needless to say, my self-esteem has been shot full of holes. Thankfully, God found me and did not leave me there. I fight hard against the enemy when he comes against me with thoughts of nonacceptance, and I choose to adjust my thinking. So, all this talk about 24 elders, from a broken point of view, lends itself to false pastors who had stood before their congregations and bragged about the cost of their suit or where they can go to eat. Others don’t brag about their premier passes to Disneyland; they merely show you the pictures of their frequent trips and exclusive vacations. These, according to Satan, will most likely be the elders because of the many books they have written, and they, just like here on earth, will be pushing people like me around once again. That kind of negativity makes me think, why would I want to be there. But, I know that those who were able to be first down here will NOT be first in heaven, as they have already acquired their reward, which will burn up at the Bema seat of Christ.

Matthew 19:30 NLT "But many who are the greatest now will be least important then and those who seem least important now will be the greatest then."

As for the Bema seat.

2 Corinthians 5:10 NLT For we must all stand before Christ to be judged. We will each receive whatever we deserve for the good or evil we have done in this earthly body.

1 Corinthians 3 tells us that all our works or actions will be tested with fire; so, if you are putting your faith in fancy suits, places you can eat, or premier amusement park passes, they will burn, and you will be left with yourself and Christ.

1 Corinthians 3:13-15 NLT But on the judgment day, fire will reveal what kind of work each builder has done. The fire will show if a person’s work has any value. (14) If the work survives, that builder will receive a reward. (15) But if the work is burned up, the builder will suffer great loss. The builder will be saved, but like someone barely escaping through a wall of flames.

Page three.

Revelation 4:4 tells us that they have golden crowns on their heads.

Revelation 2:10 informs us that we will be given a crown of life, but it sounds like an “if-then” statement that includes painful testing and death.

Revelation 2:10 NASB 'Do not fear what you are about to suffer. Behold, the devil is about to cast some of you into prison, so that you will be tested, and you will have tribulation for ten days. Be faithful until death, and I will give you the crown of life.”

This verse has no mention of a golden crown, but there is always that possibility, and I will remain open to it.

Zechariah 3:5 speaks of a turban.

Zechariah 3:4-5 CJB "who said to those standing in front of him, "Take those filthy garments off of him." Then to him, he said, "See, I am taking your guilt away. I will clothe you in fine robes." I said, "They should put a clean turban on his head." So they put a clean turban on his head and gave him fine robes to wear, while the angel of Adonai stood by."

The Word Study Dictionary defines the turban in this way: “It indicates a headpiece often worn by persons in authority in the ancient Near East. It was created by folding long pieces of cloth around a person's head. It was worn by the high priest of Israel (Zec_3:5). It is used figuratively of righteousness (Job_29:14). People considered it a valued luxury in some cases (Isa_3:23). Zion is described as the royal turban or diadem of the Lord (Isa_62:3).”

This turban may well be the crown; however, Revelation 4:4 is particular about it being a golden crown.

In the Psalms, David speaks about what Jehovah had done for him.

Psalms 21:1-3 NASB For the choir director. A Psalm of David. O LORD, in Your strength the king will be glad, And in Your salvation how greatly he will rejoice! (2) You have given him his heart's desire, And You have not withheld the request of his lips. Selah. (3) For You meet him with the blessings of good things; You set a crown of fine gold on his head.

David has always been spoken of as an analogy of our own lives and God's love for us.

Psalm 8:5 is talking about Christ, but aren't we in Christ when we accept Him?

Psalms 8:4-6 NASB What is man that You take thought of him, And the son of man that You care for him? (5) Yet You have made him a little lower than God, And You crown him with glory and majesty! (6) You make him to rule over the works of Your hands; You have put all things under his feet,

If we are in Him, then it just makes sense that we get to share His crown. Now, before you get too locked into this crown and the attitude that may be associated with it, look at this.

Revelation 4:9-11 NASB “And when the living creatures give glory and honor and thanks to Him who sits on the throne, to Him who lives forever and ever, the twenty-four elders will fall down before Him who sits on the throne, and will worship Him who lives forever and ever, and will cast their crowns before the throne, saying, "Worthy are You, our Lord and our God, to receive glory and honor and power; for You created all things, and because of Your will they existed and were created.”

Page four.

I attended a church where the elders, who were the only ones who could or would pray for you, frequently spoke of adding more jewels to their crown. Apparently, they ignored the fact that these elders cast their crowns before the throne.

We are NOT told what becomes of those crowns after this, so don't worry about it.

Perhaps the better question is, where did these Elders come from?

If I am thinking Jewish, then I did not hear elders, I heard the Greek word presbuteros. This word presbuteros was used of the Sanhedrin, and for many, just saying that word leaves a bad taste in their mouths. It was “the supreme council of the Jewish people, in the time of Christ,” and it played a role in Jesus' death and the persecution of the early church. None of this fits the occasion, so I must be looking for some other definition.

Matthew 19:28 may fill the momentary void, as I scramble to find a correlation with the elders in the Old Testament.

Matthew 19:28 NASB “And Jesus said to them, "Truly I say to you, that you who have followed Me, in the regeneration when the Son of Man will sit on His glorious throne, you also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.”

Now, I will admit that I try to be conscientious about context when explaining a biblical concept, so I must admit that the context lends itself to a conversation Jesus had with Peter, a Jew, and a disciple. The response that Jesus gave to Peter could be construed to be exclusive to the disciples; I might agree with you if Jesus had not said these words, “you who have followed Me, in the regeneration when the Son of Man will sit on His glorious throne.”

Haven't we who accepted Christ followed Him in the regeneration; and, isn't He NOW sitting on that Glorious Throne?

The short answer is yes.

Titus also addresses regeneration.

Titus 3:5 NASB “He saved us, not on the basis of deeds which we have done in righteousness, but according to His mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewing by the Holy Spirit,”

We were regenerated by the washing and renewing of the Holy Spirit; this happened when you accepted Christ, and it continues throughout this walk here on earth. This Idea of washing also appears in Paul's letter to the church in Ephesus, where he tells us that it is the Word of God that sanctifies and cleanses us. But there is one more aspect of Paul's statement that should take your breath away, and that this cleansing by the Word has one specific purpose, “that He might present to Himself the church in all her glory, having no spot or wrinkle or any such thing; but that she would be holy and blameless.”

Ephesians 5:25-27 NASB “Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ also loved the church and gave Himself up for her, so that He might sanctify her, having cleansed her by the washing of water with the word, that He might present to Himself the church in all her glory, having no spot or wrinkle or any such thing; but that she would be holy and blameless.

Obviously, there is no mention of elders in Ephesians 5, but it is Jesus who, in a sense, reintroduces us, as the church, to the Father.

Page five.

In this first letter to the church in Thessalonica, Paul addressed their fears that they had been left behind – well, that is one way of putting it, and it is a good one. Here is what he said.

1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 NASB (13) But we do not want you to be uninformed, brethren, about those who are asleep, so that you will not grieve as do the rest who have no hope. (14) For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so, God will bring with Him those who have fallen asleep in Jesus. (15) For this, we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep. (16) For the Lord, Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. (17) Then we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall always be with the Lord. (18) Therefore comfort one another with these words.

It is obvious to me that Jesus will come back and retrieve us, and there we will sit with Him at the throne of God.

 

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