A study on Matthew 25. Chapter two - A faulty argument about the nations.

“the nations will be gathered before Him;..”

The morning bible study, at least for a few minutes, was focused on Matthew 25. This is the same section of scripture I have looked at for several weeks now. Out of this discussion came boisterous ranting and opinions, and I can tell you from experience that they, in the majority, are not open to discussion. 

The ranting went along this line: That there is to be a judgment of the nations by Jesus, as he sits on his throne, where everyone from the nations will be deemed to be sinners and sent immediately to hell. (My short synopsis.)

Because my father came to me later and tried to talk about it, I discovered where they are getting this idea that Jesus comes back and immediately goes into a judgment mode over the nations.

Matthew 25:31-32 KJV "When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory: And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divides his sheep from the goats:"

I am not a grammarian; that may have been obvious to many of you, but I have enough sense to know that you use a colon to separate ideas, in this case, aspects that are supplemental but could stand alone as a sentence. This is what we see as the passage transitions from verse 31 to verse 32 - “the throne of His glory: And before him shall be gathered all nations:..” Take this idea one step further and compare versions, you get colons, commas, and periods. I suppose it depended upon the mood of the translators.

Every one of the men in the morning bible study that have taken this position has read this and made the time jump that puts verse 32 into the immediate time frame after the seven years of God's wrath and judgment. This is a faulty assumption, and there is nothing that backs up their argument except for this passage in Matthew.

Verse 31 - “When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory..”

As my father said, “once he sits down, is he going to get off the throne? No, so he must then sit in judgment.” 

I have a problem with that approach to logic. The writer of Hebrews has had Jesus sitting upon his throne for over two thousand years. Since Jesus is already seated as King, why then would he get off that throne, come back riding a white horse, and have a sword in his mouth? 

This is especially ridiculous when you consider that God could easily speak and destroy anyone who challenged Him.

Hebrews 8:1 "Now of the things which we have spoken this is the sum: We have such a high priest, who is set on the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens;"

Hebrews 12:2 "Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God."

Although we do not see this in Matthew's account, thrones are set up - you have to go to Revelation 20 to see that. 

If you are going to include this aspect in your argument, wouldn't that leap between the two scenarios, connect them, and make them equivalent?

Revelation 20:4 “Then I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was given to them.”

The problem with what we see in Matthew 25 is that there is no description of Jesus sitting in judgment. 

Why would that be? 

• Because He has done all the judging that is necessary for the moment. 
• Because the Revelation is a revelation of Jesus Christ.
• And, the entire time of wrath we call the tribulation has been a judgment.

To back this idea up, look at this:

Revelation 19:11-15 NASB (11) "And I saw heaven opened, and behold, a white horse, and He who sat on it is called Faithful and True, and in righteousness He judges and wages war. (12) His eyes are a flame of fire, and on His head are many diadems; and He has a name written on Him which no one knows except Himself. (13) He is clothed with a robe dipped in blood, and His name is called The Word of God. (14) And the armies which are in heaven, clothed in fine linen, white and clean, were following Him on white horses. (15) From His mouth comes a sharp sword, so that with it He may strike down the nations, and He will rule them with a rod of iron; and He treads the wine press of the fierce wrath of God, the Almighty."

Why do you think the Holy Spirit saw fit to give you this statement in Revelation 19:11-15, indicating that when He comes in His glory, “He judges and wages war”?

Do you really believe that the God who will change His church into something entirely fit to be in the kingdom of God, in the twinkling of an eye, must sustain a thousand-year battle to carry out His judgment?

If all I considered was verses 32-34, where do you see a judgment? 

You don't. If you are going to find judgment, then it has to be in the separation of the sheep from the goats. In doing that, you must go beyond the verses I offered in an attempt to reach for it. However, even then, without a word to the goats, he invites the sheep into the eternal kingdom. It is not until He is done showing those He calls sheep mercy that He sends the goats off to the lake of fire. And note, there is no condemnation, merely that their names are not found in the book of life.

Matthew 25:32-34 KJV "And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divides his sheep from the goats: (33) And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left. (34) Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world::

Matthew tells us that he gathers all the nations before him. 

If this is happening at the end of the "tribulation" years, then why? 

Sure, I get what you are doing, but since we do not specifically see judgment here, what else is going on?

Isaiah 66:15-18 KJV "For, behold, the LORD will come with fire, and with his chariots like a whirlwind, to render his anger with fury, and his rebuke with flames of fire. (16) For by fire and by his sword will the LORD plead with all flesh: and the slain of the LORD shall be many. (17) They that sanctify themselves, and purify themselves in the gardens behind one tree in the midst, eating swine's flesh, and the abomination, and the mouse, shall be consumed together, saith the LORD. (18) For I know their works and their thoughts: it shall come, that I will gather all nations and tongues; and they shall come, and see my glory."

But this passage in Isaiah does not say that they will continue to be punished; it says that they shall come and see His glory. 

Since we already understand that God/Jesus will gather all nations to Him after the "tribulation", and we are not seeing a judgment from a great throne of glory, then what else could happen?

Zechariah 14:16-18 KJV "And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles. (17) And it shall be, that whoso will not come up of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain. (18) And if the family of Egypt go not up, and come not, that have no rain; there shall be the plague, wherewith the LORD will smite the heathen that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles."

Once again, He calls them to Him to worship Him. Yes, there are repercussions for not obeying this demand, but this is not the white throne judgment.

It seems that the consensus at bible study is that they want to see people die: they want to see people thrown into the lake of fire. Considering that we are admonished that we will be judged in the same way we judge, this should have people with this attitude shaking in their boots.

Consider death for a moment.

What does it mean to be dead?

Death is either a separation from the body or, it is a complete and utter separation from God. To have both would be the worst-case scenario. God, having eliminated life from those who choose to do combat against Him, does not mean that they are immediately thrown into some compartment of hell where they await a final judgment. Neither you nor I can say for certain where they are at this point, but we do have this from Ecclesiastes:

Ecclesiastes 9:5 BBE "The living are conscious that death will come to them, but the dead are not conscious of anything, and they no longer have a reward, because there is no memory of them."

Why is it that they no longer have any option of a reward? 

Well, look at what Revelation 20 tells us.

Revelation 20:15 NASB "And if anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire."

No, God is not screaming at them with vile condemnations; you merely had to have your name written in the book of life.

In order for the men at bible study to make their argument, they combine two different scriptural scenarios, which they adamantly deny are the same event, so that they are able to say that what we see in Matthew 25:31, 32 is a post-tribulation judgment upon the nations. They immediately revert to separating those scenarios by a thousand years and begin a tirade about how everybody gets sent to hell.

I told you it was a horrible assumption, but why can I say that?

Take Daniel's prophecy of the seventy weeks of years as an example.

Daniel 9:24-27 KJV "Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy. (25) Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times. (26) And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined. (27) And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate."

All these prophecies have been fulfilled, up to and including the sixty-ninth week. But, As you can see, scattered throughout Daniel's prophecy are sentences that start with “And”, just like we see in Matthew 25:31,32, and yet, most of us understand that verses 26 and 27 of Daniel 9, where it speaks of a people who shall come and destroy Jerusalem and the temple, as well as a “global” leader that confirms a covenant, are clearly applied to two widely spaced time periods; one is yet to come.

The 69th week was fulfilled with Christ on the cross. 

How do I know that? 

Because the 26th verse opens with, “And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself:” It continues to speak of the destruction of Jerusalem, but this has two fulfillments – one under the rule of Titus Vespasian in 70 A.D. The next verse, Daniel 9:27, also begins with “And”. The presumption following this faulty logic should then be that Titus made a seven-year treaty with many and would have taken us into the 70th week of the prophecy. But Titus did not do that, leaving us with a gap in time of over two thousand years, as we await the 70th week to befall the earth.

So, regardless of a period for punctuation and the usage of the word “And”, the seventieth week has been on hold for over two thousand years.

Lying in bed one morning, my mind kept running through examples to make my point about Matthew 25; there are examples much more convincing than this, but another might be in Revelation itself. Look at Revelation chapter three, where the church age is coming to an end. Chapter four then opens with, “After this,” and off we go into the time of wrath, God's judgment upon the earth, the nations, and Israel. The crazy thing about this example is that even though it is clearly stated that we, though of us who are in Christ, are not destined for WRATH, the events within this time could well be happening around us now. 

What do I mean? 

The waters turned to blood – while this might be literal, massive red tides are going on around the world. Not a big deal except that they rob the water of oxygen, killing plant life and fish.

How about earthquakes? 

Ever hear of the New Madrid fault? If you did not, I would not be surprised because it seems to have only recently been discovered; either that or somebody thought it best we did not know.

What about volcanoes? 

We have more exploding now, at one time, than ever before, and that seems to be an aspect of the time of wrath. Yet, volcanoes are also common in many parts of the world. 

And what about losing your life by decapitation, for your testimony? 

Since Islam is playing the major role in this depravity, do you think that Islam is merely practicing for some future event?

The point to this is that God's timing is not the same as ours. Since there seems to be some urgency here, I suggest you get ready. You do that by asking Christ into your life. Let Him take over, as many of you have not been doing such a good job running it.

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A study on Matthew 25. Chapter one - He who reigns in His glory.

When you read Matthew 24 and 25, do you ever find yourself asking, what is the context of Jesus answer to the disciples and the extensive response that carries on for two chapters? If you want to understand you have to go back to chapter 22 of Matthew to find out what motivated this string of explanations.

In Matthew 22 we find Jesus telling the disciples to get the young colt and its mother because Jesus was about to ride into Jerusalem like a conquering King – the king Israel had been waiting for.

It did not take long for all that to change, for when he arrived at the temple he cleared the outer courts, the courts of the gentiles by violently overthrowing their tables and chasing them, anyone doing business with them, and their livestock out of there with a whip he fashioned out of cords. This started a two-day verbal barrage with and against the Chief priests and elders.

Put flesh and blood on these characters called disciples and you realize that the disciples and Jesus were from Galilee and really had nowhere to go hide as Jesus went toe to toe with the elders, while they were in Jerusalem, therefore they stuck out like a sore thumb.
After two days Jesus directs them back to the Mount of Olives, one of his favorite places to commune with the Father. Stunned and shaken as they walked, they did not know what to say, so they did what anyone might have done, divert to the obvious because, once again, as far as they could see, He was not the awaited Messiah, as they previously thought. Walking past the temple, the pride and focal point of Israel, they point out the architecture of the temple. Really? God's Son was standing right in front of them and all they could see is the temple.

Based on what He said in response they formulated two questions.

Matthew 24:3 NASB As He was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately, saying, "Tell us, when will these things happen, and what will be the sign of Your coming, and of the end of the age?"

Those two questions are extremely Jewish and have everything to do with when he will come back as the Messiah they expected. Try keeping that in mind as you read Matthew 24, 25. As I said his response was long. It was as long as the question was deep and everything He said had application to the end of time when He would come back as the Messiah Israel recognized.

Matthew 25:31-46 is only one aspect of what he told them, and, has everything to do with God's last piece of business before we move off into a perfect eternity, a relationship as God intended it to be, free of sin.

Matthew 25:31 NASB (31) "But when the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the angels with Him, then He will sit on His glorious throne.

When Jesus comes in his glory

As always, I admonish you to think like a Jew. That requires that you, as a Gentile believer, think outside the religious box you were brought up in and ask, what is the Jew, even today, awaiting? A Messiah that will come in his full glory ready to clean house, take the throne in judgment, and then, lead his people into eternity with him.

Because prophecy is embedded in patterns to the Jew these words, in a similar way, had already been stated on a previous occasion to the disciples. Aside from occurrences found in the Law and Prophets, this is the second time Jesus had said this to them, so it must be not only true but very important. We find the other instance in Matthew 19:28.
Should I want to dig I can find another reference to the glorious throne in writings of the prophet Jeremiah.

Jeremiah 14:21 KJV Do not abhor us, for thy name's sake, do not disgrace the throne of thy glory: remember, break not thy covenant with us.

How could God disgrace his own throne?
This is reminiscent of a conversation that Moses had with God.

"I prayed to the LORD and said, 'O Lord GOD, do not destroy Your people, even Your inheritance, whom You have redeemed through Your greatness, whom You have brought out of Egypt with a mighty hand. 'Remember Your servants, Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob; do not look at the stubbornness of this people or at their wickedness or their sin. 'Otherwise the land from which You brought us may say, "Because the LORD was not able to bring them into the land which He had promised them and because He hated them He has brought them out to slay them in the wilderness." (Deuteronomy 9:26-28 NASB)

The impact of such a statement shows that Moses understood the character of God and that doing something such as this would make people see God as something He is not.

Let's focus on this glory aspect for a moment.

While my earlier statements probably define how the Jew feels, what backs the definition and their feelings up?

Matthew 19:28 MKJV And Jesus said to them, Truly I say to you that you who have followed Me, in the regeneration, when the Son of Man shall sit in the throne of His glory, you also shall sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

So there is a clear anticipation of the Messiah coming back in a spectacular way.

The Complete Jewish Bible translates this verse like this:

Matthew 19:28 CJB Yeshua said to them, "Yes. I tell you that in the regenerated world, when the Son of Man sits on his glorious throne, you who have followed me will also sit on twelve thrones and judge the twelve tribes of Isra'el.

When then, does Jesus come back in this anticipated way?

At the end of the time of wrath. Yes, the entire period we love to call “the tribulation” is a time of wrath and judgment.

We see this all throughout the Revelation starting with the opening of the seals in chapter six. Revelation 19 starting at verse 11 continuing through verse 21 speaks of Him judging and waging war, and so I show it to you now.

Revelation 19:11 NASB And I saw heaven opened, and behold, a white horse, and He who sat on it is called Faithful and True, and in righteousness He judges and wages war.

Here, though, is probably where many errors in understanding begin because it describes Him returning and tells us that He judges and wages war. The not so discerning perceive “He judges” to mean that of those thrones to be set up, Christ's is one of them and now he sits on the throne in judgment for the next thousand years I suppose.

Consider what has taken place.

What we mistakenly call the tribulation, years of God's wrath and judgment poured out upon the nations and Israel for rejecting Him, quite probably initiated by the rapture, has just ended.

I feel like I have to take a moment here and define something. Why would it be proper to say that the time of wrath/judgment may have been triggered or initiated by the snatching away of the church?

Romans 5:9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

1Thessalonians 1:10 And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come.

1Thessalonians 5:9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,

Because of these “witnesses”, I see credible evidence telling me that as a believer/follower of Jesus Christ, that I, nor you if you follow Christ, are going to be subject to the wrath that is coming. Can you also see why it is important to label the time frame as it is meant to be, a time of wrath, not tribulation? Oh certainly, tribulation will be a part of it as it has always been for the believer. Maybe, that has been a problem too, as we invite people to Christ indicating that all their problems will go away. Sure, I want you to come to Christ primarily because you are loved and have a hope and future with the Father in eternity. But get real, you are signing up for warfare. Perhaps I need say nothing more than what Jesus said?

Matthew 10:34 KJV Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.

Take the time to read Matthew 10:34 – 42, it will open your eyes.

Since God and Jesus are the same, then we could just as easily say that the last seven years have been Jesus judging the earth. Many will call this a stretch, so let's see if we can find something more concrete for you.

Since much of what I have just mentioned comes out the Revelation, what does it say?

“The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave Him to show to His bond-servants, the things which must soon take place; and He sent and communicated it by His angel to His bond-servant John,” (Revelation 1:1 NASB)

So the entire book then is a Revealing of Jesus Christ. Therefore, any application of God in the book is really talking about Jesus, because they are the same and in union with each other.

Then there is that whole event on the cross; what do you do with that?

While there is no denying that, as Matthew's gospel puts it, He comes in Glory - which happens to mean judgment. But judgment for what?

Not sin, that was taken care of on the cross, as Jesus became sin for us.

“Sin” is such a lousy word for merely not hitting the center ring of a target, especially when you are having to compensate for everyday life events that act like sudden gusts of wind moving your hands off-center just as you release your shot or, you are sixty-two years old, as I am, and now your hands are starting to shake. How naughty of you! Get real, at least some of us are trying.

After reading scripture for all these years I feel like I can put the puzzle together because I have so many of the pieces. My problem is, I do not remember while I got the puzzle pieces from. Because of my memory slipping gears on me, I begin by doing searches for keywords I know are related to the subject. Since that did not work as well as I hoped, in this case, I sat there pondering for a moment. It is often in those moments, when I am quiet, that the Holy Spirit speaks. In this case, I was reminded to look in the letter to the Hebrews. (To you Gentiles, which is about all of us, this entire letter was written with the Jewish community in mind.)

For if the word spoken by angels was steadfast, and if every transgression and disobedience received a just recompense of reward, how shall we escape if we neglect so great a salvation, which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by those who heard Him; (Hebrews 2:2-3 MKJV)

Since sin, the damaged condition we carry that required the payment of blood, was preventing us from a relationship with God, because it put us in the ownership of Satan, then someone had to pay the price for our freedom from this indebtedness and separation. Since there was no one on earth capable of doing that God sent his Son, untainted by what seems to be a genetic disposition to fail by sinning. That was Jesus Christ; And, He did it perfectly. His payment of his own blood purified us and paid for the freedom of us all.

What then would prevent a human from entering into heaven?

Well, just what the writer of the letter to the Hebrews said, to neglect so great a salvation. You, of course, are intelligent people and know full well what neglect is , don't you? Really it is as simple as the child, who hears the request/demand to take out the trash, but, for whatever reason does not. They have neglected to do so. A synonym for neglect is to disregard. Now I understand, as foolishly disregarding a road sign that indicates there is danger ahead due to the road being destroyed by a flood can cost you your life.

I said all that to say, it is only our own bad choice to disregard God's voice calling you to him that will put you through the eternal separation called hell.

Read Revelation 19 and 20 to get the full picture, but since we are talking about Christ sitting upon a throne where do we see a throne or thrones after the time of judgment?

Revelation 20:4-5 MKJV And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was given to them. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for the witness of Jesus and for the Word of God, and who had not worshiped the beast nor his image, nor had received his mark on their foreheads, nor in their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. (5) But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

I do not see one throne set up with just Jesus seated as a king that judges. I see many thrones; as many as there are martyred saints.

“ the souls of those who had been beheaded for the witness of Jesus and for the Word of God, and who had not worshiped the beast nor his image, nor had received his mark on their foreheads, nor in their hands”

This horrific act of being martyred because your beliefs were different or challenged your oppressors, has happened to many already and it is not even the time of wrath yet; what happens to them?

1 Thessalonians 4:15-17 MKJV (15) For we say this to you by the Word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord shall not go before those who are asleep. (16) For the Lord Himself shall descend from Heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ shall rise first. (17) Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air. And so we shall ever be with the Lord.

Does all this mean that Christ will not be seated in the New Jerusalem during the thousand-year reign?

Not at all, for He will be the light.

Revelation 22:5 NASB And there will no longer be any night; and they will not have need of the light of a lamp nor the light of the sun, because the Lord God will illumine them; and they will reign forever and ever.

You need to spend time in the Word of God for yourself, for in that book all truth is found.