Ezekiel 38 and 39, a detailed look at the prophecy against Gog. Part 1

I was asked by my pastor why I study eschatology (end times events.) Ignoring the negativity of a challenge like this, I find that "end times events" are tied in with almost everything I read in scripture. Ezekiel 38 and 39 is such an event, as it speaks of a horrific situation that may happen at any minute.

Try opening a conversation about what you find in Ezekiel 38 and 39 and the eyes of your audience will glaze over and you can watch them begin to look at their watches, wondering if there isn't somewhere else they need to go. There are reasons behind this lack of interest, and they stem from confusion; a lack of understanding; the inability of the speaker to put flesh and blood on the characters; and, the worst part is that there is a veil over the eyes and ears of the hearer so that they cannot comprehend. Along with those factors, there is a multitude of answers as to who the players are and when this event will take place. Ambiguity plays a role in the disinterest because an honest dissertation of an end-times scenario will typically put you in the ballpark, perhaps even provide the audience with the team name, but at this point, I am not sure we specifically say who the main characters are. Furthermore, two simple sentences can inspire books of commentary. I am going to try and condense but still give you an understanding of this prophecy.

An introduction to Ezekiel:

He was a priest, the son of a priest, and he was taken captive into Babylon. Already, you should be thinking, odds are not in his favor. Ezekiel was one of the few that give us precise dates.

According to Dr. John Gill's commentary, chapter 38 gives an account of "an enemy of the Jews, under the name of Gog, that shall invade their land, and disturb their peace after they are settled in it;"

J. Vernon McGee, in his commentary, demonstrates some classic old-school thinking as he tells us the theme of Ezekiel 38 is Russia's invasion of Israel. McGee is making his case for Gog to be Russia.

I happen to think McGee's assessment is wrong and we should not be focused on the Russian President Putin. You have to keep in mind what was going on in the world that would have inspired the McGee's particular emphasis on Russia in his commentary. For example, The United States was deeply entrenched in the Korean war; the Vietnam conflict, with the cold war with Russia waiting just around the corner. I too assumed that Russia would be one of the major players (and no doubt they are, but we are trying to think biblically while paying attention to the context.) as we lived with the verified threat of Russian missiles 90 miles off our coast in Cuba - a Russian ally, as children.

The Summarized Bible commentary conveys that “God does not only see those who are now the enemies of His people, but foresees those who will be so in the last days, and lets them know by His Word that He is against them, and will make their movements to serve His own purposes.”

I know, every generation has had those that have said, "we are in the last days," and I would tell you that they were right.

Now how would I come to the understanding that every generation comprehended that we are in the last days?

• Daniel chapter 9, spells out a seventy-week decree against Israel. Sixty-nine of those weeks have been fulfilled. The seventieth week of years (7years) has been on hold for over 2000 years. Therefore, we, the church, have been in the last days for over 2000 years.
• Peter, on the day of Pentecost, filled with Holy Spirit, preached to the thousands milling about the streets of Jerusalem that day. An aspect of what Peter said came from Joel chapter 2 which speaks about the time of God's wrath which the seventieth year portrays. However, within that period, people are acting out in the power of the Holy Spirit as the prophets of old did. Peter said this part of Joel's prophecy had been fulfilled in your hearing.

What did he say? We are living in the last days.

Since the last days seems to be very focused on the seven-years of wrath, are we, at the moment, living in the seventieth week? No, and that will not come until the church is removed from the earth. 2 Thessalonians 2:6-8

The NASB opens our look into Ezekiel 38 with:

Prophecy Against Gog

Ezekiel 38:1-2 NASB And the word of the LORD came to me saying, 2) "Son of man, set your face toward Gog of the land of Magog, the prince of Rosh, Meshech and Tubal, and prophesy against him

Note how the passage provided has no appropriate punctuation at the end. That is because the thought continues and we will pursue that shortly. But for the moment let's dissect the verses.

• “Son of man,”
  Is there any question as to whom the Lord is talking? The answer is Ezekiel.
• “set your face toward Gog of the land of Magog, the prince of Rosh, Meshech, and Tubal, and prophesy against him,”

Okay, what just happened? Ezekiel was told to prophesy against two entities:

• Gog; this person also happens to be the chief prince of Meshech and Tubal.
• And, the land of Magog;

If Ezekiel is told to prophesy against him, and "him" includes the land, then we should be considering the possibility that this is:

• A nation?
• A people group?
• A demonic operation that controls a people group?

As I try to understand, I turn my attention to my concordances and look up the word Gog.

BDB Definition: Gog = “mountain” -

1. A Reubenite, the son of Shemaiah (1 Ch 5:4)
2. The prophetic prince of Rosh, Meshech, and Tubal, and Magog (Read Ezekiel 32)

Strong's concordance merely adds Gog, the name of an Israelite. The KJC keeps us in Ezekiel with one exception:

1 Chronicles 5:1-4 MKJV And the sons of Reuben, the first-born of Israel (for he was the first-born; but since he defiled his father's bed, his birthright was given to the sons of Joseph the son of Israel, and the genealogy is not to be counted according to the birthright; 2) For Judah prevailed among his brothers, and from him came the chief ruler, but the birthright was Joseph's); 3) the sons of Reuben the first-born of Israel: Hanoch, and Pallu, Hezron, and Carmi. 4) The sons of Joel: Shemaiah his son, Gog his son, and Shimei, his son.

The dishonor carried by the family due to Reuben's indiscretion, which excluded them from any rights of birth, surely plays a role in all of this.

The Word Study Dictionary tells us this about Gog:

• He is pictured as a great enemy against God's people.
  Ezekiel 38:9 NASB "You will go up, you will come like a storm; you will be like a cloud covering the land, you and all your troops, and many peoples with you."
• He is from the land of Magog or possibly "from the land of Gog."
  Gog. i.e., mountain, in reference to the Caucasus mountains, the chief seat of the Scythian people. Note: Rather, "Gog (the prince) of the land of Magog, the prince of Rosh, Meshech, and Tubal." The Ultimate Cross-Reference Treasury
• The Lord sets Himself against Gog (Eze_38:2).
• Gog will lead a coalition of nations against God's people who are then dwelling securely in the land of Israel (Eze_38:14-16).
  With the addition of the words, God's people who are then dwelling securely in ...Israel. They have turned this so that we are looking at the church and not Israel, which is incorrect.
• But God, in fact, will bring Gog forth and will destroy him and his people.
  Ezekiel 39:1-2; Ezekiel 38:19-23
• The Lord spoke about this through other prophets (Eze_38:17-18).
  Ezekiel 38:17 MKJV So says the Lord Jehovah: Are you he of whom I have spoken in former days, by the hand of My servants the prophets of Israel, who prophesied in those days and years that I would bring you against them?
• The multitudes of Gog will be buried in the Valley of Hamon Gog, that is, "multitudes of Gog" (Eze_39:11),
  Ezekiel 39:11 CJB " 'When that day comes, I will give Gog a place there in Isra'el for graves, the Travelers' Valley, east of the sea; and it will block the travelers' passage. There they will bury Gog and all his horde, and they will rename it the Valley of Hamon-Gog [horde of Gog].

The Cyclopedia of Biblical, Theological and Ecclesiastical Literature informs us that:

They are the name of a mixed race dwelling in the extreme north, comprehended by the Greeks under the name of the Scythians; (2.) to the center and representative of their race, i.e. their king (Ezekiel 38:39). Gog comes forth from the distant north (Eze_38:15-23; Eze_39:2), ... And, if you are stickler for history - Interpreters have given very different explanations of the terms Gog and Magog; but they have generally understood them as symbolical expressions for the heathen nations of Asia, or more particularly for the Scythians, a vague knowledge of whom seems to have reached the Jews in Palestine about that period. Thus Josephus (Ant. 1:6, 3) has dropped the Hebrew word Magog, and rendered it by Σκύθαι;

Classic Bible Maps

Of the maps, I looked at to better understand this ancient classic version shows me more and divergent details than any other map, as it points out Gog and Magog, and where they were located. I have also provided a link to Wikipedia which continues to fill in the blanks in understanding and prophecy with highly detailed information about the Scythians. Because of the quantity of information found there, which all seems important, I am only going to suggest that the interested pursue that there. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scythians]

As you read the information, consider where Gog might come from. It may help you to understand more clearly how the Turkish "president" Recep Tayyip Erdoğan might best fill the role of Gog.

Just for the fun of it, I searched the internet to find out if Genghis Khan could have been a Scythian. The Headline read, “Not Just Genghis Khan - Scythians Show Genetic Blending With Europe 2,000 Years Ago.” http://www.science20.com/news_articles/not_just_genghis_khan_scythians_show_genetic_blending_europe_2000_years_ago-96314

Here is was I gather so far.

Gog, from the disinherited family line of Reuben, moves North and becomes a nomadic, mounted, a warring nation known as the Scythians. They ranged into China, Siberia, Egypt, Asia Minor and as far south as the Northern African nations, however, they seem to be centrally located around Turkey and the Caspian Sea. They are heavily influenced and integrated by the surrounding nations such as Persia, Syria, and the Caucasus regions. They conquered Nineveh, the Assyrians, and the Medes. Having relations as violent as Genghis Khan one can assume that slaughter was their general theme. This is the people that God sees as one of Israel's few remaining thorns in the flesh. 

Finally I was able to get there.

My place of employment always hires extra help in the Spring; this year was no different, but for once we got some help in my department. I have a tendency to not want the new people to go through the same exclusionary practices that I experienced, so I say hi to them or at least treat them like they are part of the team (Yes, that means I torment them just as I would do anyone else.)

One day as I was passing through the lunch room I see one of the new guys reading his bible. I stopped momentarily to ask what he was reading. I understand the sarcastic response is “a bible” but without explaining my question, which I suppose I should have, the question was more specifically meant to be, “what are you studying and what are you getting out of it?” I remember that he was reading out of the gospel of Luke. I did not know at that time that he was coming to my department.

Why is any of this important?

For one, I have learned that there about six people who work there that claim to be “Christians”. That word has come to mean little or nothing because of its vagueness, and the oddity that many in this nation of mine seem to believe that merely living here makes you a Christian. That kind of belief tells me that you know nothing about having a relationship with Jesus Christ and that you are a follower of him. Look up the word follower and you will find it also means to pursue; one who pursues goes after or walks behind Christ with him as the leader. Now how many of those, so-called Christians, are followers? Of those six only one cares anything about talking about Jesus or their relationship with the Father. I find that to be very discouraging and do not waste my time talking with Pharisees.

This is why I was elated to have this new guy join us. On the first day he joined us we found reason to talk about our savior Jesus Christ. I even told him that I had prayed that God would send me someone who I could communicate with. I think we both agreed that God hand his hand in him being there.

He invited me to his church to join in their Wednesday evening bible study. When I finally was able to get there he was not, but that is okay.

Pastor Marcus, who my friend tells me is very skillful with the Greek and Hebrew, was starting brand new in the book of Daniel. While I am not an expert in Daniel, I am skillful and consider myself well versed in the end times. Daniel, along with several other old testament prophets, plays an integral role in defining the events of these last days.

I must tell you that while I enjoyed it, we flew through the book. Pastor tends to expect his audience to have done their preliminary reading; I had. When he got to the part where Daniel explains to Nebuchadnezzar about the iron legs pastor ran right along tradition and declared that this was the Roman empire.

Let me ask you a question. Have you ever read the book of Daniel? If so, and you were paying attention, then you know that the Roman empire was not mentioned or defined as being the iron legs, in any way. If you are going to emphasize how important it is to read and understand the context then the person leading the group should either be honest and say they do not know, or not give false information merely because it is tradition.

Later, I wrote this pastor a short letter. I introduced myself and how I came to the bible study. Then I told him how much I enjoyed it and that I would be back, and I have been. I also told him how I ran across Glen Beck, then on national television, explaining by comparison on a white board how Jesus of Nazareth and Mahdi of Islam paralleled each other. This information was new, poignant and alive to me, and the author of the book from which Glen Beck had obtained this information was sitting right there and spoke about it all with clarity. I obtained two of his books, and from that point on my understanding began to grow. I told the pastor that it was like the lifting of a fog bank from my mind and suddenly the Revelation and end times events all began to make sense. Joel Richardson, the author of the Mideast Beast, defined the iron legs as the Islamic Caliphate, and gave solid reasons to defend that position.

Pastor Marcus wrote me back, and this I was not excoriated for my “opinion or lack of understanding” but was thanked for informing him about this author, as he had never heard of him before. Pastor Marcus, in person, informed me that he did some research on Joel Richardson and became convinced that he needed to read these books of his.

I cannot begin to tell you how that made me feel. No one, for several years now, has given me much credence. Oh I notice how with every post I get a new follower, and yes that does say that the Father is giving me credence with some, but sadly I do not know any of you. And honestly, how many, who enthusiastically started following me still do?

The second week of my attending Pastor Marcus' bible study.

I already had a heads up that this week we were covering Hosea, Joel and Amos in one night. That is like watching a bullet train go by and then having someone ask you to verbally paint a picture of the happenings that you saw in the twelfth window of the third car. Really, I did not notice any windows and it seemed as though it was one long car.

The short recap:

Hosea -

Hosea and his relationship with his wife (Gomer) is representative of Israel, not just in turning it's back on God, but in running after everything that is not God, just to satisfy the flesh. Isn't that what adultery, or cheating is? Hosea is ordered to take a wife from the prostitutes, those who help to satisfy the burning desires of the flesh to do what it wants. Hosea has children with her but has to go and buy her back on several occasions. His children have names that are hugely significant. The first is named Jezreel; the name of the valley where God will judge the nations in the last days. The last two have the prefix Lo added to their names and it means NOT! Not loved and No longer having compassion on Israel. The book speaks of the judgment against Israel for turning their backs on God, and yet ends by changing their names back and telling of how he will show mercy on them again.

That went by quickly

Joel -

I anxiously awaited Pastor's comments on Joel. If you have read it then you know it is another one of the prophets speaking about judgment upon Israel. Joel chapter two opens with: 

Joel 2:1-3 NASB Blow a trumpet in Zion, And sound an alarm on My holy mountain! Let all the inhabitants of the land tremble, For the day of the LORD is coming; Surely it is near, (2) A day of darkness and gloom, A day of clouds and thick darkness. As the dawn is spread over the mountains, So there is a great and mighty people; There has never been anything like it, Nor will there be again after it To the years of many generations. (3) A fire consumes before them And behind them a flame burns. The land is like the garden of Eden before them But a desolate wilderness behind them, And nothing at all escapes them.

To be honest, Joel took on a whole new meaning to me when I finally really saw what Peter did on the day of Pentecost. Filled with the Holy Spirit, the promised comforter that would empower them, they (possibly 120 “disciples”) were doing something they had never done before, speaking in heavenly languages (tongues) and the people on the street heard this, and heard it in their own tongue. Does what I just said mean that the disciples were speaking in French and Swahili? Perhaps, or not. Does it matter? They were obedient and receptive, and the Holy Spirit fell open them as Jesus said it would.

Peter declared, “This is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel,” and he went to quote a part the verse, out of context, to the religious crowd. 

Joel 2:28-29 NASB "It will come about after this That I will pour out My Spirit on all mankind; And your sons and daughters will prophesy, Your old men will dream dreams, Your young men will see visions. (29) "Even on the male and female servants I will pour out My Spirit in those days.

Of all the things pastor could have talked about he focused on this. He told the guys sitting in the room that they were not to pull scripture out of context and use it prophesy as Peter did. I suspect that the men there needed to hear some strong wisdom about jumping ahead of the cart. Pastor also talked about the judgment that is predominant in this book also.

Amos -

We barely made it Amos and he reiterated that we were to have done our reading and should have an understanding of what Amos speaks of; again, judgment.

When the meeting was over the pastor came over to talk with me. He thanked me for the recommendation on the author Joel Richardson and noted how I had tried to speak to him the previous week. I took the opportunity to say how much I love the prophesy of Joel 2:28-29, and told him that I put a little different spin on it when I talk about it. I told him that though it is a prophecy embedded in the end times, that Peter, led by the Holy Spirit, kicked the door open by saying, “this is that!” The Holy Spirit moved that prophesy into the present. Now the question is really, What are you doing with it and if not, why not?

As usual I am compelled to say, that what I am talking about will be relatively meaningless unless you have a faith and hope in Jesus Christ. That would mean that you are a follower of Jesus Christ and in active pursuit of him. Should you need to do that, ask Jesus Christ to come into your life and give you a life with the Father. Turn from your sins, as a believer you have a new clean heart, and the garbage of the world is no longer you, and it no longer owns you. To say repent of your old ways has a couple of connotations.

1. You need to be honest, today is great day to start. Tell God that you have made a mess of your life and need him to come into your life and run it. Give it over to him, you were screwing it up anyway.
2. 2. He will begin to heal the wounds that have brought you to where you are now, but again, being honest and turning those things over to him will move that along quicker. My own personal experience was one of trying to fix things myself (it is the nature of man to do things on his own, regardless of how inexperienced and ineffectual we are at fixing ourselves.) God had to use someone else to reopen an old wound from my youth in order for me to see it and allow God to heal it. I honestly had no idea how to gain relief from the pain that wound caused me, and I had no idea that I had made agreement with it.
3. Break your agreements you have made with the enemy. As followers of Christ, one that studies the scripture, I know that I have an enemy and that he is trying to steal (everything from me) destroy me, and kill me in any way possible. I am hoping that this gives you some insight to understand that death and damage come in many ways and forms. I am not asking you to stay in relationships that are not safe, but to understand that the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune are designed by Satan himself; he merely uses people as tools to meet his end (and that is to take you out or out-of-the-way.)
4. If you have given Jesus Christ control of your life then you have a good heart. Jesus even describes you as a good tree and it is not the pattern of a good tree to produce bad fruit. I can give you a number of reasons to explain the biblical concept of a good heart, such as the Apostle Paul's statement that you are now flesh of his flesh and he is perfect.
5. As a follower of Christ you have a hope! A hope in what? That he will come and retrieve those that are his. He rose from the dead just to prove his point. He got collected back to the Father and he used that as an example of how adamant the Father is about upholding his word. He has spent the last two thousand plus years establishing that he is believable. He will come and gather us up; we call that the rapture.

Related articles

• The Departure (terryjamesprophecyline.com)
• Understanding the Basics of Christianity (christianity.answers.com)

Written in code, Revelation 13:10

It would seem that most of Revelation is written in code.

An example would be beasts with multiple heads, all of which represent empires, kingdoms, and rulers, but you are not given the rules to break the code directly.

If I only looked at Revelation 13:10, in the KJV, it would come across as a riddle and take a very different meaning from many other translations. The question is, which one is right?

He that leads into captivity shall go into captivity: he that kills with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.
(Revelation 13:10 KJV)

A, not so common, alternative is the Moffatt translation.

Revelation 13:10 Moffatt NT 10) Whoever is destined for captivity, to captivity he goes: whoever kills with the sword, by the sword must he be killed. This is what shows the patience and the faith of the saints.

One might assume that the one leading others into captivity would be the antichrist, and since Islam is the primary proponent of beheading by sword, this would fit the mold of the false prophet quite nicely.

In this modern world, where technological advancements are rapidly changing and improving the way we kill people, why the sword?

The sword within Islam almost takes on a religious theme and may well fall under that category.

We already have a large collection of FEMA detainment camps, sometimes referred to as protective facilities, here in the United States.

Who is being protected?

They might want you to think that they are protecting the Christians from those who wish to remove our rights and freedoms. Don't be deceived. You can't really believe that Christ followers will be treated respectfully while detained there.

Other versions of this passage read like this:

“Whoever is to be a prisoner, will be a prisoner. Whoever is to be killed with a sword, will be killed with a sword. This means that God's holy people must have patience and faith.” (Revelation 13:10 ERV)

The Easy to Read version takes an entirely different approach from King James. It shifts the focus from the perpetrator to the victim, as though they had done something wrong. In theory, this may be one way God has chosen for us to understand what will befall those who remain after the church is gone.

Penn Jillette of the magical act, Penn and Teller, has been very vocal about being an agnostic and his disappointment in Christians not taking the responsibility to tell someone like him if something akin to a devastating train wreck is about to befall him. At least then, he could logically decide how to react to that information.

What I am doing could equate to something like that. Having seen in scripture what is coming for those who wait, I warn you: this world after the rapture will not be pretty.

Sure, the man who shows up will be handsome (maybe), well-spoken, charismatic, and have all the right things to say, calming most people down. Following him will be a tragic and last error in judgment, for worshiping that man and taking any marks he demands will end your chances for God's redemption.

It is clear to me that there will still be a chance for some, kind of like playing a card trick, only God owns the deck of cards, and Mr. Penn Jillette will not be able to figure out what he is doing should he end up before the white throne of judgment.

Translating Revelation 13:10 from the victim’s point of view enlightens and possibly misdirects the world from looking at reality.

Let’s look at the words being used because I want to understand.

“He thatG1536 leadeth intoG4863 captivityG161 shall goG5217 intoG1519 captivity:G161 he thatG1536 killethG615 withG1722 the swordG3162 mustG1163 be(G846) killedG615 withG1722 the sword.G3162 HereG5602 isG2076 theG3588 patienceG5281 andG2532 theG3588 faithG4102 of theG3588 saints.G40”
(Revelation 13:10 KJV+)

It’s nothing short of confusing when you look at it like this.

These Bibles we use were initially written in a lost form of Greek, then Hebrew, and finally transliterated into the English of King James under the guidance of the Catholic Church—the state Church. Guys like me are seemingly at the mercy of those who study ancient languages, and therefore, it is beneficial to compare texts because, for the most part, there is a common thread between the two translations.

Here is the perseverance and the faith of the saints.

If the focus is on the perpetrator, then it seems God is spelling out the type of retribution they shall receive.

Why would it be necessary for the Saints to have perseverance and faith?

This statement makes perfect sense if the focus is on the victims.

What does it mean to have perseverance and faith?

Perseverance, according to the Greek, means to be steadfast, constant, and to endure. But what are you enduring? And for what purpose?

The ISBE and Vine’s expository call it a different Greek word. The ISBE says it occurs only once in the NT, in Ephesians 6:18.

“Praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, and watching thereunto with all perseverance and supplication for all saints;”
(Ephesians 6:18 KJV)

The KJV states it this way: Here is the patience and the faith of the saints. I suppose it is safe to say that the words endurance and patience lean in the same direction.

Strong's tells us that the word patience is: Hupomonē - From G5278; cheerful (or hopeful) endurance, constancy:- enduring, patience, patient continuance (waiting).

So then, what are the Saints, going through the tribulation, waiting for?

God will rescue them and also give them a home in his arms.

If I could warn you of impending death or imprisonment with torture, then adding a statement that allows you to mentally prepare might be a good thing. I am certain that a statement like this does that very thing for some.

As I sat down to dinner one night at Chick-fil-A, a business known for its Christian stance, a man walked up to the counter wearing a T-shirt that expressed some aspect of how he felt. It said some name and the words, “standing at hell's gates.” It would seem to me that he has no hope of a future with God.

Focusing on verse 10 alone, I believe that for some there will be a separation from the body only to find themselves in the presence of the Lord, while others may find themselves faced with hell's gates and the sudden realization that this is not really where they wanted to be.

I am almost embarrassed to tell you this because it is the environment I grew up in, but the religious assumptions I heard left me with the idea that there was no hope for anyone after the rapture.

Clearly, that is not the case. Why?

1. ) The verse we have dealt with speaks to the Saints and implies the necessity of faith and patience.

   In writing to the church body in Ephesus and referring to them as Saints, Paul is writing to Christians. The reference to saints in the Revelation are those who were not part of the church body, did not go up in the rapture, and have been martyred during the time of God's wrath.

2. ) Peter stood on the day of Pentecost, as recorded in Acts chapter 2, and told those scoffers that what they were hearing was the prophecy of Joel chapter 2 being fulfilled in their hearing.

   Do you realize that Joel's prophecy is about the last days? The fact that Peter announced that the prophecy was fulfilled on that day establishes a freedom to act a certain way from that point on.

   In our Christian circles, we love to use the prophecy of Joel to describe something out of the ordinary that typically happens to the youth in the realm of the prophetic, primarily with our pre-rapture church body. (Note: You will not see anything like this at my church; It is not allowed. - A warning: God will tear the walls off your church building if you try to keep him out.)

   While Peter's statements give us the precedent to use it, it is primarily directed to a handful, maybe larger, of Saints who not merely surviving the horrors of the great tribulation but living in extraordinary victory during this time. They will come to understand that they are not of this world. Filled with the Holy Spirit, they walk in the freedom and power of the most feared prophets who walked this earth. (Consider. If you came to a person like this, humbly seeking to know and understand the God they have come to know and understand, how do you think they would respond? They respond with the loving, merciful nature of the God who empowers them.

   Take the time to read Joel’s first two chapters. You will find that the emphasis is on the Day of the Lord, a day of darkness and gloom, and that aspect alone is at the end of the seven years.

One of the New Testament’s main themes is our hope for a future with Jesus Christ and the Father That is what these Saints of the tribulation years have come to understand and hope in, too.

A hope like this is built within you, but what is it based upon?

The scriptures are a witness, a testimony, and a faith in a message.

Nothing has changed, for the scriptures tell us that faith comes by hearing, but if this time frame puts these people in the time of wrath, then we might logically assume that no one is left to tell them.

Think about it. Why send two witnesses to Earth?

These two witnesses will impact Israel, and their actions will be broadcast on global television. The entire world will see what men of God really act like and say.

We also know that an angel flies around the globe preaching the good news of Jesus Christ. And then there are not only copies of the bible left everywhere, but guys like me that post it on the Internet.

I am asking you to look into the scriptures for yourself. Yes, it is appropriate to compare your notes against what scholars have ascertained; doing that has multiple effects:

1. ) It gives you a compass that tells you that you might be headed in the right direction and

2. ) It allows you to confirm that your thoughts are sound (keep in mind that if you are Born Again and filled with the Holy Spirit, then you have a guide and teacher—trust him).

   But remember, even scholars will spin the result to satisfy those who are paying their bills. No one is paying my bills, and that is why I am attempting to rock the boat a little.

The only way to gain assurance that your hope is in heaven is to accept Jesus as Lord of your life, and that the Father has promised a life with him in heaven. Choosing against that pits you against the time of judgment that was meant for those who reject him; that includes Israel. Even Israel will be shown mercy, but not without a cost. You do not have to go through something not meant for you. To go there is purely your choice. Choose wisely was the phrase used in the Raiders of the Lost Ark movie. I would hope that you do.

Challenges to: “A Short Course on Revelation” Part 2

You challenged the concept of the tribulation being judgment, referring back to the seals and the plagues of Revelation as if they were some separate entity. You also told me that you spend little to no time reading the old testament, so here is the underlying problem.

I think an attempt at establishing what this time we call the tribulation is, is in order.

Jeremiah 30:7 Alas! for that day is great, so that none is like it: it is even the time of Jacob's trouble; but he shall be saved out of it.

Without a comparative look at the Old Testament we might not have any understanding of what Jacob’s troubles is. A clear aspect of the passage is “that day”. I believe the reference is to “the day of the Lord.” This day plays a significant role in our understanding of Jacob’s troubles. The fact that Jacob is associated with the beginnings of Israel is a huge clue.

The passage also states that “he shall be saved out of it.” Who then is the “he” referring to since Jacob is long since passed? God seems to not be looking for a singular man, but more toward an entity or perhaps a nation; the nation Israel. Why would there be a reference to being saved out of something when Israel is experiencing an unprecedented peace now? Perhaps we are ignoring the obvious signs, given by prophecy of a time when there will be a tremendous outcry for peace.

Without an understanding of scripture how would you know that “that day” will come at a time when people are saying “peace, peace”. There is always an alternative possibility that requires some thought. What if this is a scenario where the people are crying out for peace because they need it? Think about the situation in Israel, as you read this. Iran is crying out for the absolute destruction of Israel and they are building the assets that would enable them to do something like that. Scripture tells that the damage will be great at some point with a two-thirds loss of Israel’s population, but that will not happen tomorrow. It will only happen after some ruler makes a peace treaty with Israel for a seven-year period, which he will break half way through the time period. At that time Israel will be attacked from every flank. There will be horror in the streets like you never thought possible.

John MacArthur’s commentary states: time of Jacob's trouble. This period of unprecedented difficulty for Israel, as the verse defines, is set in a context of Israel's final restoration. It is best equated with the time of tribulation (cf. Jer_30:8-9) just before Christ's second advent, mentioned elsewhere (Dan_12:1; Mat_24:21-22) and described in detail (Rev. 6-19).

Dan 12:1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which stands for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.

Michael, the Angel, steps up in behalf of “the children of thy people”, the Children of Israel. References to “a nation” and “thy people” are clear references to Israel.

Matthew 24:21-22 KJV For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. (22) And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

Again I quote from John MacArthur: great tribulation. The words "has not been" and "nor ever shall be"—along with the description that follows—identify this as the yet-future time in which God's wrath shall be poured out on the earth (see note on Rev_7:14). Jesus' descriptions of the cataclysms that follow closely resemble the outpouring of divine wrath described in the bowl judgments of Revelation 16 and His subsequent appearing in Revelation 19 (see note on Mat_24:30).

The entire chapter of Matthew 24 is talking about the end, but there is a context to Matthew 24 and it lies in the question that the disciples ask Jesus.

Matthew 24:3 KJV And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?

The sign of his coming (one of the many references to “the day of the Lord”) is at the end of the 7 year period, and it is definitively the time when Jesus shall return physically to the earth. Realistically, if you consider all the events that scripture defines will happen, then perhaps they are all signs of his coming.

The Bible Knowledge Commentary, by John F. Walvoord and Roy B. Zuck states,

“To what “time of trouble” was Jeremiah referring? Some have felt that he was pointing to the coming fall of Judah to Babylon or to the later fall of Babylon to Medo-Persia. However, in both of these periods the Northern Kingdom of Israel was not affected. It had already gone into captivity (in 722 b.c.). A better solution is to see Jeremiah referring to the still-future Tribulation period when the remnant of Israel and Judah will experience a time of unparalleled persecution (Dan_9:27; Dan_12:1; Mat_24:15-22). The period will end when Christ appears to rescue His elect (Rom_11:26) and establish His kingdom (Mat_24:30-31; Mat_25:31-46; Rev_19:11-21; Rev_20:4-6).”

While there are some clear time frames involved, many contend that the “day of the Lord” is the entire seven-year period. Others make assertions that the great tribulation arrives at the mid point and only lasts three and one half years. If you invest some time looking into this mid-point aspect it is clear that persecution escalates from then on, making the idea that no one would survive a much more realistic scenario.

Look at this passage from the NT.

2 Thessalonians 2:2 (DRC)(The Holy Bible Translated From The Latin Vulgate) That you be not easily moved from your sense, nor be terrified, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by epistle, as sent from us, as if the day of the Lord were at hand.

The Thessalonian church was asking because it feared that the day of the Lord had come already. If they were talking about the time of destruction that so many references to “the day of Lord” refer to, then I believe the discussion might have taken a completely different turn, but Paul reassured them that for them, it had not come, therefore they could rest in the hope that they would meet him in the air, on that day; another day altogether.

In 1 Corinthians 15:51-52 KJV Paul tells the church, and us, (51) Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, (52) In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

If you try to make this correlate with the trumpets of Revelation then you will only provoke your confusion, for the trumpets of Revelation are part of the judgment period. Ask yourself as you increase in knowledge of end times events, how many raptures are recorded? The answer is two, and they both happen after the end of the seven-year period.

The first rapture is of those slain for their testimony during this horrible time. God calls them saints and they get to reign with him during the thousand-years. The second resurrection of the dead is at the end of the thousand-year reign. None of these should be considered to be in Christ, for if they had been they would have been caught up to be with him in the air, and that did not happen. These are the one that have died outside of a firm acceptance of God as Lord and his son Jesus Christ. They are brought before the Great White throne and judged. Although we often speak of these people as doomed to hell, if you spend some time studying this out you will find that even in this God still shows mercy to many.

Ezekiel 30:3 KJV For the day is near, even the day of the LORD is near, a cloudy day; it shall be the time of the heathen.

Joel chapter 2 is one that I heard often in my pentecostal circles where prophetic speakers would come and share what God laid upon their hearts.

Joel 2:28-29 KJV And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions: (29) And also upon the servants and upon the handmaids in those days will I pour out my spirit.

If you spend anytime reading Joel you will find it filled with encouragement, and gloom.

Joel 2:1-2 KJV Blow ye the trumpet in Zion, and sound an alarm in my holy mountain: let all the inhabitants of the land tremble: for the day of the LORD comes, for it is nigh at hand; (2) A day of darkness and of gloominess, a day of clouds and of thick darkness, as the morning spread upon the mountains: a great people and a strong; there hath not been ever the like, neither shall be any more after it, even to the years of many generations.

You have to find the distinction as to when this “day of the Lord” comes. I believe that this points to the physical manifestation of the Lord upon the earth at the end of the seven-year period. It is not going to be a pretty day, and I believe the effects of his coming will be seen globally. You cannot forget that this is a Jewish oriented book, whether you wish to accept that fact or not is irrelevant. The Jew reads something like “blow the trumpet in Zion” and there is an immediate recognition of the sound of the shofar giving out a call.

If you do as I did, and merely pursue the word judgment through the simple concordance at the back of most bibles, you will taken to Isaiah 66 as I was. God, through Isaiah contrasts the humble and contrite with the what ever the opposite is. Though what to call the opposite is not made distinct in the NIV, it is safe to presume the selfish, manipulative, and those who refuse to follow God’s commands. Webster’s dictionary describes the humble as being submissive, or penitent, in complete opposition to the selfish and manipulative.

What are hiGod’s commands for the NT believer? Few considering we live in an age of grace and mercy. We are to believe in the Name of Jesus, and his redeeming work on the cross that brought us forgiveness for sins, but what does that mean to us? It means we have a hope; the same message that Paul brought to the Thessalonian church when they struggled over the possibility that they had missed the rapture. If your sins have been forgiven and you believe in the Son, then you have a hope for the future with Him in Heaven, just as he said.

Isaiah 66 starting at verse 3 describes those in opposition to God, how they operate, and what will happen to them.

Isaiah 66:3-4 NIV But whoever sacrifices a bull is like one who kills a person, and whoever offers a lamb is like one who breaks a dog's neck; whoever makes a grain offering is like one who presents pig's blood, and whoever burns memorial incense is like one who worships an idol. They have chosen their own ways, and they delight in their abominations; (4) so I also will choose harsh treatment for them and will bring on them what they dread. For when I called, no one answered, when I spoke, no one listened. They did evil in my sight and chose what displeases me."

Why? For when I called, no one answered; When I spoke, no one listened.

Perhaps the question to ask, like some nightmarish movie, is what do you dread? Israel is about the same size as New Jersey and all of their neighbors are hostile toward them. Put yourself in their shoes, especially now, then tell me what your greatest fear would be.

Here is that word you seem to have so much trouble with, judgment.

Isaiah 66:14-16 NIV When you see this, your heart will rejoice and you will flourish like grass; the hand of the LORD will be made known to his servants, but his fury will be shown to his foes. (15) See, the LORD is coming with fire, and his chariots are like a whirlwind; he will bring down his anger with fury, and his rebuke with flames of fire. (16) For with fire and with his sword the LORD will execute judgment on all people, and many will be those slain by the LORD.

Jeremiah 25:29 NIV See, I am beginning to bring disaster on the city that bears my Name, and will you indeed go unpunished? You will not go unpunished, for I am calling down a sword on all who live on the earth, declares the LORD Almighty.'

Another harsh example, but in this case he clearly deems it punishment.

Judgment, I suppose would be the sentence prescribed, punishment is the carrying out of the act. People, in a civilized world, do not get punished for no reason. God has already spelled out the sentence for us.

Jeremiah 46:10 NIV But that day belongs to the Lord, the LORD Almighty-- a day of vengeance, for vengeance on his foes. The sword will devour till it is satisfied, till it has quenched its thirst with blood. For the Lord, the LORD Almighty, will offer sacrifice in the land of the north by the River Euphrates.

Ezekiel 30:2-3 NIV "Son of man, prophesy and say: 'This is what the Sovereign LORD says: "'Wail and say, "Alas for that day!" (3) For the day is near, the day of the LORD is near-- a day of clouds, a time of doom for the nations.

Joel 3:2 NIV I will gather all nations and bring them down to the Valley of Jehoshaphat. There I will put them on trial for what they did to my inheritance, my people Israel, because they scattered my people among the nations and divided up my land.

Joel’s prophecy should stand out for God states clearly that he, “will put them on trial for what they did”. That sounds like judgment to me.

Isaiah 13:6 NIV Wail, for the day of the LORD is near; it will come like destruction from the Almighty.

Isaiah 13:9 NIV See, the day of the LORD is coming --a cruel day, with wrath and fierce anger-- to make the land desolate and destroy the sinners within it.

Isaiah 13:11-13 NIV I will punish the world for its evil, the wicked for their sins. I will put an end to the arrogance of the haughty and will humble the pride of the ruthless. (12) I will make people scarcer than pure gold, more rare than the gold of Ophir. (13) Therefore I will make the heavens tremble; and the earth will shake from its place at the wrath of the LORD Almighty, in the day of his burning anger.

Look at verse 13 above. “ I will make the heavens tremble; and the earth will shake from its place at the wrath of the LORD Almighty, in the day of his burning anger.” Hardly anyone hears of the events that occur in Revelation, whether they fall under the classification of seals, plagues, or trumpets considers them a pleasant affair. I think it is safe to say that everyone perceives the events of Revelation as terror, and no one cares to distinguish between the beginning from the end, it is all calamitous with death permeating every event. You would be hard pressed to find anyone who thinks of what is to come as anything less than punishment, the result of judgment.

I have been at this for several days now. Not only trying to give clarity, but build a reasonable argument. Yes, it takes me a while, and yes, I am basically lazy, not so willing at times to do the research necessary.

I had not been sleeping well due to a recent back injury and during one of my bouts of restless sleep God spoke to me and gave me some clarity on this subject of judgment upon the earth. I was reminded of what Jesus said, it will be as in the days of Noah. Luke recorded that Jesus spoke of Lot. Peter added some clarity by speaking of Lot as well.

Matthew 24:36-39 KJV But of that day and hour knows no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only. (37) But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. (38) For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered into the ark, (39) And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

Jesus warned that a time would come when people would no longer be paying attention. That means they were not expecting Jesus anymore today than yesterday, and life was just continuing to happen, because there are things to do and life to live.

When you break down the Noah scenario what are the aspects?

1. Noah, a righteous man in an unrighteous world, is following God’s odd command to build a massive boat. Noah, and probably his sons, take a tremendous amount of flack over this boat, partly because it takes him 100 years to build it. During this entire time people ask questions, mock him, and, if they are kind, merely walk away. Life continues, children are born, the oldest being 100 by the time the flood hits, and these have the same opportunity to walk in righteousness as Noah because Noah preached the right way to them, but did they? No way. Man only did what he wanted.
2. God sees all of this, for nothing escapes him, and when the time is right he brings JUDGMENT. We do not have to call it anything else, trumpets, bowls, seals, it is nothing less than destruction of godless man upon the earth.
   How many righteous men were there at this time? Apparently only one, but unlike Lot’s family Noah’s came along. I do not think people pick up on the mercy of God in this story. One of Noah’s sons does something horrible to his father not long after the flood and receives a curse upon his family line for it. We really know little about the sons and their wives prior to the flood.
3. Clearly, because righteousness continues in some people today, the responsibility lies on Noah’s sons to pass on that heritage. The fact that the world is filled with believers is testimony to that.
4. The ark is complete. God gives the command to the animals to come and fill the boat. Scripture tells us that when the animals were secured that the flooding began. The earth began to open up as well as the skies, and water began rushing out from every direction. Flooding takes some time unless you live below a dam when it breaks, and then you have only seconds. As the earth began to flood God put Noah, and his family in the boat. Destruction came and God removes his righteous man from that destruction.

Warnings were given; judgment came, and God rescued those that were his before the all-encompassing destruction touched Noah.

Now consider Lot for a moment.

1. Lot tried bargaining with God to save at least his home and family, I am not sure what else he was bargaining for. It is possible that Lot knew the extent of the perversion, I believe he did. Scripture backs that idea up for you see an odd comment from the town folk in verse 19.
   Genesis 19:9 KJV And they (the angels) said, Stand back. And they said again, This one fellow came in to sojourn, and he will needs be a judge: now will we deal worse with thee, than with them. And they pressed sore upon the man, even Lot, and came near to break the door.
   The men of town said that Lot needed to stop judging them.
2. God has the Angels pull Lot, his wife and daughters out of the town, and then destruction came. There is such an attraction to the world left behind that the wife looks back and dies, and the daughters, in short order, pull an odd stunt by having sexual intercourse with their father. What God wants us to see as the result is a righteous man, Lot.

Once again, like Noah, God has rescued his righteous from judgment, or shall we say, destruction. There is no precursor, no mid-tribulation period, no great tribulation; it is merely judgment for the rejection of God.

A little clarity and insight as to why I write. I used to hang out with a group of men at the hamburger stand. We would talk about the bible. One of the men, claimed to have been a pastor at one time, and seemed to enjoy taking a domineering role at these meetings. They had asked me to join them, and I did for many months. Although we have had some clashes, this leader and I, I think we worked through them, but I disagree with him frequently. I told the group that I write commentaries and thoughts on scripture, and post them on the internet. I was asked to share some of these with the group.

This last time was odd for a couple of reasons: The “pastor” is on a seven-year mission to make the Revelation clear and understandable (Yes, that was an allusion to Star Trek, and no it is not literally a seven-year mission, but he pursuing minute details and never gaining any ground. Therefore it will take him seven years, at least). Problem is everything he said was confusing when he would speak about it. I decided, because I too had always had a wish to understand Revelation that I would write a short synopsis of the book. I called it “A Short Course on Revelation” and posted it on the internet. I took a couple of copies to the bible study and handed it exclusively to one of the men there (this man I gave it to seems to enjoy reading them and he is extremely knowledgeable in Greek).

The “pastor” took that copy from him to glance at and kept it. The following week he handed it back to me with his arguments scribbled on it, and an addendum indicating that he really wanted to talk about this in-depth, and that he was open to understanding, and willing to change if someone could convince him he was wrong. Here is the problem with that, no one can convince him he is wrong. We have pointed things out in scriptures that are in opposition to his assertions and yet he would continue to sit there arguing by saying we are misunderstanding the passage. I cannot change anyone, only God can, and I learned long ago that you cannot argue with a closed mind.

The “pastor” also let us know that he did not spend anytime at all in the old testament, and really could see no great reason too since our lives as believers is solely based in the new testament. I find that a pathetically odd and uneducated approach, especially since this man was a chief financial officer for a corporation at one time.

To choose to ignore statements Jesus made that are clearly taken from the old testament, and not have some desire to understand their context puzzles me. I also found the old testament to be filled with people who like me, desired to understand God and still live in this tumultuous world we are stuck in. Reading the old testament gives me insight into how they did it.

The book of Revelation is deeply entrenched in the old testament and deserves our study, and a serious, in-depth study will begin to make much of it come clear, as many parts of the revelation are direct quotes from the various prophetic books.

And lastly, we seem to forget that this book we call the Bible was primarily a Jewish oriented book until Paul the Apostle came along. It has not changed in it’s heart for Israel and the Jews, nor has the prophetic scheme changed. Having an understanding that to the Jew prophecy is pattern makes the book of Revelation suddenly come alive, for God saw fit to show those patterns over and over through the prophets and in the Revelation itself.

I tried to convey that on this part of the paper the pastor seemed to be distraught over the idea that God was bringing judgment. He kept trying to come back to the exact terminology that Revelation uses as though pain cares where it inflicts you. Whether they be called seals, bowls, or trumpets is somewhat irrelevant, for they all bring death and judgment to those still on earth.

Ezekiel 7:19 KJV They shall cast their silver in the streets, and their gold shall be removed: their silver and their gold shall not be able to deliver them in the day of the wrath of the LORD: they shall not satisfy their souls, neither fill their bowels: because it is the stumbling block of their iniquity.

John 5:26-27 KJV For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself; (27) And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man.

Romans 2:5 KJV But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasures up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God;

Revelation 6:17 KJV For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

Jude 1:6 KJV And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.

Pastor, after having read these last few passages, I have concluded that in your present state, you are one of the false shepherds that scriptures speak of, for you have not pointed any towards our hope that we should have with your lack of understanding and false teachings. And even if you were honest in your efforts, your lack of understanding would have, at the least, caused those that listen to you to only see through muddied water, at which point they have learned nothing.

I exhort you to dig into God’s word; find the Son of God in all his glory awaiting you there with open arms, and run to him. Allow him free rein in your life by accepting him for who he is; he is God and he loves you with an everlasting love. He knew you, everything about you, and still he longs for your companionship. An everlasting glory and life with the Father awaits you when you come. Wait no longer, just come.

Related articles

• A Short Course on Revelation
• Who Are the Tribulation Saints?