Where the whore is. Revelation 17:15-18.

 In the previous post, I tried to give you a commentary on Revelation 17:12-14 based upon logic, scripture associations, historical evidence, and a bit of influence from other commentaries. I ended on Revelation 17:14. This is what verse 14 says.

"These will wage war against the Lamb, and the Lamb will overcome them, because He is Lord of lords and King of kings, and those who are with Him are the called and chosen and faithful." (Revelation 17:14 NASB)

The “these” is referring to kings that rise up – use that term kings lightly as it also refers to rulers and ruling bodies.

Waging war is in this case, limited to the time when Jesus comes back to earth as the warring Messiah that Israel has longed for. Verse 14 says “and those who are with Him are the called, the chosen, and the faithful.”

The word called is the Greek word klētos and means the invited or appointed.

Called, this word works, especially if you picture God looking over the earth and all who have been born or unborn and called them all to come back to Him. Not only were we all invited, but God takes it one step further, in that we have been appointed.

Appointed, according to Webster's dictionary means fixed; set; established; decreed; ordained; constituted; allotted. 2. Furnished; equipped with things necessary; as a ship or an army is well appointed.

Try this on for size.

You have been decreed and ordained, before you were ever thought of, to be equipped with the things necessary, to function as an emissary for and to God.

For those who wish to argue.

"Before I formed you in the womb, I knew you; before you were born, I separated you for myself..." (Jeremiah 1:5a CJB)

Chosen is the Greek word eklektos. Other, more dominant usage options are select; and by implication favorite.

And the final word used to designate those who will be with Him is faithful.

Faithful is the Greek word pistos. Pistos also means a trusty person who shows themselves faithful in - the transaction of business, the execution of commands, or the discharge of official duties.

It also applies to:
- One who kept his plighted faith;

Plighted ranges between pledged and difficult. Some, after some missionary comes back and gives the entire church their field report, may decide to make a faith pledge that they will never keep. On the other hand, it seems this life of faith we live is filled with difficulties.

- One who is worthy of trust.
- And, those that can be relied on.

The first two terms (called and chosen,) can easily be seen as characteristics of a believer in Jesus Christ, as these terms are frequently applied to a Christian; this does not mean that the “Christian” will follow after or walk in their calling. The last term, faithful, can apply to a wide variety of people, and many of them are not in your church body. Consider Matthew 25 and the sheep and goats.

As we saw in the last post scripture interprets itself.

Revelation 17:15 CJB  Then he said to me, "The waters that you saw, where the whore is sitting, are peoples, crowds, nations, and languages.

As I talk with people in church few understand what the nations are. Perhaps this will help your understanding. There are only three people groups in the Bible.

• The Jews

  This is also deemed to be Israel.

• The nations

  The Jews call anyone outside of Judaism, the Gentiles. We, believers, are considered Gentiles, but we are NOT.

• And the church.

  To the Jews, the church is nonexistent, however, to the believer in Christ we are the church, and the church is in Christ Jesus. If a Jew comes to Christ then they are a part of the body and can also be a Jew. And, in a sense, we were all from the nations but are now in Christ. Very soon the church will be caught up to be with Jesus in the air, at that point there will only be two people groups on earth.

“The waters that you saw, where the whore is sitting, are peoples, crowds, nations and languages.”

Then one of the seven angels who had the seven bowls came and spoke with me, saying, "Come here, I will show you the judgment of the great harlot who sits on many waters, (Revelation 17:1 NASB)

So the whore of Babylon is truly dealing with the nations – the Gentiles. Remember, if you are NOT a Jew, you are a Gentile; this includes the Ishmaelites - the Islamic nations, and all other third world nations.

If the whore represents the filthy rich, then how and why would they have anything to do with the downtrodden, the poor, the dirty, and the enslaved, you should be getting the idea?

Revelation 17:16 NASB "And the ten horns which you saw, and the beast, these will hate the harlot and will make her desolate and naked, and will eat her flesh and will burn her up with fire.

• “ And the ten horns which you saw, and the beast,”

  These are two different entities, although they worked toward what we consider a common goal. Remember, the horns represent kingdoms or empires; this applies to both physical and financial empires.

  This is why God is causing them to go astray so that they will believe the Lie.
  (2 Thessalonians 2:11 CJB)

  Context, Paul wrote this letter to a Jewish community of Christ-followers. So when Paul says “them”, he is including the Jews in this group of people that can and will go astray and believe “the lie.”

  What is the lie?

  Paul does not define it, and yet, like in the movie “The Matrix,” the lie is all around you. I hear this in my spirit, many will read this statement and say, you stupid conspiracy theorist. Let me show you something.

  Do not love the world or the things of the world. If someone loves the world, then love for the Father is not in him; because all the things of the world—the desires of the old nature, the desires of the eyes, and the pretensions of life—are not from the Father but from the world. And the world is passing away, along with its desires. But whoever does God's will remains forever. (1 John 2:15-17 CJB)

  There, in 1 John 2, is the Matrix analogy.

  It is the drive to dominate, the lust for money, and the power they think it brings. It is intertwined throughout our governing bodies. It is an intricate aspect of “the swamp” that former President Trump described. And worse yet, for the beast, which will, in the last minutes of time will be a man, it will be the false belief that through his deceit and power grab, he believes his ideologies will overthrow God.

  The beast, while playing the game, will seem to have the same goal, global domination, but with an Islamic background, one that claims to abide by the Quran, his goal will be to make everyone a follower of Allah or they die. For the horns, the goal is global domination where they are treated in the manner in which they have become accustomed. Add this to the drive to bring the population down to a manageable level of about 400 million. Just for the fun of it, there are approximately 7.7 billion people on the earth today. Consider food for a moment, here in America it has become quite obvious that food shortages (an event that the Bible tells us will happen,) are man-made.

  Do you think for a moment that those who hold the power will do without?

  Not a chance. While we eat veggie burgers, they will dine on prime rib.

• “they will hate the whore, bring her to ruin, leave her naked, eat her flesh and consume her with fire. “

  We are still on Revelation 17:16 talking about the whore that rides the beast. As you might have noticed, I gave you the Complete Jewish Bible translation, and this is the language that they have used. “They,” in context, is the beast, however, the usage of the term they certainly move this beyond a singular man as the beast.

  Look at what the “they” do to these “rich” people do.

  • They hate the whore,

  • Bring her to ruin,

  • Leave her naked,

  • Eat her flesh,

  • And, consume her with fire.

What kind of backing would it take to take down George Soros, Bill Gates, and Klaus Schwab at one time?

A massive economic collapse might do it.

Revelation 17:17 CJB  For God put it in their hearts to do what will fulfill his purpose, that is, to be of one mind and give their kingdom to the beast until God's words have accomplished their intent.

• “ For God put it in their hearts”

  “Their hearts,” is referring to the people who have already aligned, and those who will align themselves with the beast/antichrist.

• “to do what will fulfill his purpose,”

  So the question is, whose purpose? Well, the answer is both; God has a purpose, and it will be fulfilled. The beast has a purpose that will also be fulfilled but there is a catch, it is all God's purpose. Let me show you.

  In their hearts, humans plan their course, but the LORD establishes their steps.
  (Proverbs 16:9 NIV)

  Another place where we see God's purpose demonstrated is in Genesis 37.

  Joseph's brothers threw him into a dry well with the apparent intent of killing him.

  Judah said to his brothers, "What will we gain if we kill our brother and cover up his blood? (Genesis 37:26 NIV)

  When a band of Ishmaelites came by the brothers opted to sell him. The Ishmaelites took him into Egypt and sold him. None of them had any idea that a massive drought was coming. Joseph rises to power and ends up serving God's purpose as he saves the entire family during the years of drought.

• “that is, to be of one mind and give their kingdom to the beast until God's words have accomplished their intent.”

  God's purpose is to cause them to be of one mind; to give their kingdom to the beast; and, for that to happen until God's words have accomplished their intent.

In finishing Revelation 17 we have this.

Revelation 17:18 NASB "The woman whom you saw is the great city, which reigns over the kings of the earth."

• “And the woman you saw is the great city that rules over the kings of the earth.”

  What or where is the great city?

  I strongly suggest that it is Israel. Evidence for that, and it should be scriptural, although even scripture has a historical aspect to it.

  A Song; a Psalm of the sons of Korah. Great is the LORD, and greatly to be praised, In the city of our God, His holy mountain. Beautiful in elevation, the joy of the whole earth, Is Mount Zion in the far north, The city of the great King.
  (Psalms 48:1-2 NASB)

  Another piece of information that feeds into this great city being Israel.

  When they have finished their testimony, the beast that comes up out of the abyss will make war with them, overcome them and kill them. And their dead bodies will lie in the street of the great city which mystically is called Sodom and Egypt, where also their Lord was crucified. (Revelation 11:7-8 NASB)

  • When it refers to “they” here it is talking about the two witnesses that were sent from God.

  • Finished – having been here for 1240 days, they are done speaking and God allows them to be killed. They will be resurrected but not for three days. Quite symbolic, don't you think?

  • Their bodies will lie in the street of the great city which is called Sodom and Egypt, where also their Lord was crucified.

    Where does God put the two witnesses? Right in the middle of Jerusalem. The passage calls Jerusalem the great city.

    So, are the two witnesses lying in physical Babylon? NO, they are lying in the streets of Jerusalem.

    Did you notice that Jerusalem is referred to as Sodom and Egypt? This should be eye-opening, but there is a problem because it (sarcastically) says, where also their Lord was crucified.

    Where was Jesus crucified? On a hill called Golgotha, the highest point in Jerusalem.

Revelation 17 closes with “The woman whom you saw is the great city, which reigns over the kings of the earth.” Merely because the harlot has a name associated with Babylon through comments like “the great city” which most assume to be physical Babylon; and, the idea that this great city rules over the kings of the earth, does not mean it is Babylon. We have more evidence in scripture that tells us this is Israel. One of those examples comes from Ezekiel 16.

Everyone who makes up proverbs will say of you, ‘Like mother, like daughter.’
(Ezekiel 16:44 NLT)

Here again, most will assume this is referring to Babylon. If you chose to investigate the context of Ezekiel chapter 16, you would find that God is talking about Israel. This showing of evidence can drag out for pages, so I will leave that to you.

As I started pursuing an understanding of Revelation 17:18 I became aware that some will allow this to fire their prejudice and antisemitism, and go on rants against Israel and the Jews. I am saying this because I have heard it, and the majority has come out of the mouths of “Christian” folk. You should know that Israel is the center of God's heart and He will never forget Israel and His people. How fortunate we Gentiles are that we have been allowed to be grafted into the vine. Oh, and that Bible you are reading is a Jewish-oriented book. Maybe it's time we adjust our thinking?

Micah 4: 2,3. Come let us go to the Mountain that He may teach us His ways.

A quick google search and you find that there are 195 countries and roughly 6,500 languages spoken; and yet, God will see to it that they all come to the mountain of the Lord, the house of the God of Jacob. There, they will all be taught His ways, so that they may walk in His paths.

Micah 4:2 NASB Many nations will come and say, "Come and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD And to the house of the God of Jacob, That He may teach us about His ways And that we may walk in His paths." For from Zion will go forth the law, Even the word of the LORD from Jerusalem.

What will they learn?
Some would say, now they will learn to fear God! Is that a valid hypothesis? While it is true that the Bible translators used the word fear as they tried to convey a verbal image of people in relationship with God; however, the word fear is a poor choice especially when the phrase reverence would be better. An example of this can be found in Job 28:28.

God said to us humans, "To be wise, you must have reverence for the Lord. To understand, you must turn from evil." GNB

Most of the translations put it this way, ‘Behold, the fear of the Lord, that is wisdom.”

If I have reverence, then you would think I also had a deep respect, perhaps even a love for the Lord. If I understand this “fear” in terms of being wisdom, maybe then I can better comprehend this unusual relationship with someone I cannot see.

But I must tell you, having lived in an atmosphere of fear all my life, I don't even like the word.

Now, if fear is the way I perceived the father figure in my life, how then would I see God?

Can you understand some of the difficulties many of us go through as we “come to the Lord.” I am sure some have had to set aside great fears to accept such a vast, ominous God coming close to them. The point is, these people in Micah 4:2, regardless of emotional distress or circumstances, are coming before Him.

We assume these that come before God knowing nothing about God.

What do we do when think like that? We forget that every human has the knowledge of good and evil in them, NO MATTER where they come from or what language they speak. Why do you suppose, in the midst of chaos, that some people will do the right thing and help others, even though there is no apparent religious motivation to push them.

What have all these nations, that are coming to the house of the Lord, just witnessed,?
God's wrath being poured out upon the earth, alongside the wrath of humans. Revelation 6 describes seven seals, each of which wreaks havoc on the planet in the form of death; starvation; the waters being made undrinkable; the stars falling from the sky; earthquakes; volcanic activity; and the wrath of humanity against others. While Revelation 7 speaks specifically to beheadings in uncountable numbers.

After all this chaos there is no doubt they need to find out what God's true nature and character are because wrath makes a lousy calling card.

Micah 4:2 MKJV  And many nations shall come and say, Come and let us go up to the mountain of Jehovah, and to the house of the God of Jacob. And He will teach us of His ways, and we will walk in His paths; for the Law shall go forth out of Zion, and the Word of Jehovah from Jerusalem.

“And He will teach us of His ways, and we will walk in His paths.”

This idea of teaching people His way is not a new one.

Deuteronomy 6:1-2 MSG This is the commandment, the rules, and regulations, that GOD, your God, commanded me to teach you to live out in the land you're about to cross into to possess. (2) This is so that you'll live in deep reverence before GOD lifelong, observing all his rules and regulations that I'm commanding you, you and your children and your grandchildren, living good long lives.

And though this passage from Deuteronomy sounds somewhat oppressive, you must remember that we, as followers of Christ, live in the age of grace. A time where our sins are forgiven and our lives are hidden in Christ. No, this life of grace does not give us the right to do as we please, because we are not to cause others to stumble. This grace provides us with the freedom and desire to worship the Father freely.

I am told that I was laid on a blanket at the church my mother attended while my father was in the military during the Korean conflict. So effectively, I was raised in the church. But, that did not make my experience personal. Even without an adult comprehension, I still had this deep reverence for God. I suppose you could say I feared Him, and I would have to agree.

When I gained the freedom and right to drink alcohol I did, and a lot of it. However, there came a time when dad, invited me to a camp with him. There was a speaker there by the name of Jerry Savelle, and God used him to get my attention. In a sense, I began to consume the word in a way I had never experienced before. I could not get enough, and, a short time later, I was accepted into a Bible college. Unfortunately, I got married, and I allowed that woman to destroy all my hopes and dreams. I went through nine years of hell because of her and the enemies schemes against me. Brother Savelle taught faith, and still, to this day, I feel strongly that God desires I walk in faith, but it is not my job to school people in faith; but it is my job to teach you the Bible and allow the faith to grow inside of you.

Once again, several years later, life came to a screeching halt once again, and I lost everything, including my family. The judgmental among us would say, you got what you deserved and maybe so; but out of the chaos I once again began to study my Bible, and I did so with one purpose, to find out what the nature and character of God was. In this way, the deep reverence for God has become a lifelong goal.

Now, when it comes to observing all his rules and regulations I have not been so successful at that, but then, God knew that would happen, and that is why Jesus went to the cross as the sacrificial lamb, to resolve that issue. He died once for all.

Moses's father-in-law, was a smart man because he noticed that Moses was taking all the responsibility and weight upon himself, and paying the price for it. The following is the conversation the man had with Moses.

When Moses' father-in-law saw all that Moses was doing for the people, he said, "What's going on here? Why are you doing all this, and all by yourself, letting everybody line up before you from morning to night?" Moses said to his father-in-law, "Because the people come to me with questions about God. When something comes up, they come to me. I judge between a man and his neighbor and teach them God's laws and instructions." Moses' father-in-law said, "This is no way to go about it. You'll burn out, and the people right along with you. This is way too much for you-you can't do this alone. Now listen to me. Let me tell you how to do this so that God will be in this with you. Be there for the people before God, but let the matters of concern be presented to God. Your job is to teach them the rules and instructions, to show them how to live, what to do. (Exodus 18:14-20 MSG)

Due to some of the teaching the false teachers have instilled, we have not grasped whom Moses was dealing with. These people he brought of Egypt, had been there long enough to effectively be Egyptians in every respect, including the gods they served; and they had to be retrained to serve God. An example I always lean on shows “God's people” dancing and screaming, as they willingly roasted some of their children to the god Molech, an idol that they encouraged Aaron, Moses' brother, to make. If someone would have understood God's ways, then Aaron would have been it. He was there as Moses was brought back to his mother to be nursed until he was old enough to go be the adopted son of some Egyptian princess. When you follow that story, you conclude that Moses was taught who he was by family members, for when Moses rose against the Egyptian for beating one of his people, he claimed their heritage. You don't just absorb this information at birth; it has to be taught. Now he is teaching it to over a million people.

“for the Law shall go forth out of Zion, and the Word of Jehovah from Jerusalem.”

Here we go again, as some will say, laws are restrictive. Not to those who live quiet lives in peace, they aren't. Laws are only tough on those who choose to live willful lives of opposition.

Isaiah 26:9 MSG Through the night my soul longs for you. Deep from within me, my spirit reaches out to you. When your decisions are on public display, everyone learns how to live right.

Since Micah tells us that Law will go forth, a public display of God's wrath, incurred upon those who have chosen to ignore God's laws, they have seven years of public display to learn how to live right.

I like how Eugene Peterson's Message puts it.
Romans 10:11-15 MSG Scripture reassures us, "No one who trusts God like this--heart and soul--will ever regret it." (12) It's exactly the same no matter what a person's religious background may be: the same God for all of us, acting the same incredibly generous way to everyone who calls out for help. (13) "Everyone who calls, 'Help, God!' gets help." (14) But how can people call for help if they don't know who to trust? And how can they know who to trust if they haven't heard of the One who can be trusted? And how can they hear if nobody tells them? (15) And how is anyone going to tell them, unless someone is sent to do it? That's why Scripture exclaims, A sight to take your breath away! Grand processions of people telling all the good things of God!

One of the things my heart cries for is peace. I am surrounded, just as you are, with violence. Micah 4:3 finally tells us there will be peace, and why.

Micah 4:3 MSG He'll establish justice in the rabble of nations and settle disputes in faraway places. They'll trade in their swords for shovels, their spears for rakes and hoes. Nations will quit fighting each other, quit learning how to kill one another.

• “ He'll establish justice in the rabble of nations and settle disputes in faraway places.”

Again, many assume that means that most people will just be killed off and that is not true. Revelation 22:15 proves that.

Revelation 22:14-15 KJV  Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.  (15)  For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loves and makes a lie.

If God were to kill off all those who choose to live by their own god's standards instead of His, then these people certainly would not be here.

The general attitude is of most leans toward horrific punishment, like this.
1 Samuel 2:10 KJV  The adversaries of the LORD shall be broken to pieces; out of heaven shall he thunder upon them: the LORD shall judge the ends of the earth, and he shall give strength unto his king, and exalt the horn of his anointed.

But in reality, this is what will happen.
Psalms 67:4 MKJV  O let the nations be glad and sing for joy; for You shall judge the peoples righteously and govern the nations on earth. Selah.

Instead of weeping because God is bringing further harsh judgments, we see the nations rejoicing and singing for joy.

Why do you suppose that is? Could it be that we, just like those rocks Jesus said would cry out, also long for the day of our redemption.

What does redemption mean to a person who has never heard such a message before? Try to picture those people living in what used to be the quiet of a Venezuelan jungle, who has become painfully aware of the encroachment of industrial farming; using a technique that requires that you slash and burn the jungle away so that the wealthy landowner can have it, and thereby obtain more wealth. These people are painfully aware that destructive forces have taken away the beauty they once lived in; and, it seems that everyone, although they may not call Him Jehovah, is well aware of a creator and some form of redemptive plan.

One “brother-in-Christ,” angrily unleashed his voice at me, saying, Jesus can't come back because these people have not received a printed Bible as yet! As though that was mandatory.

What did I just show you from the Message? I showed you Isaiah's words where it says, your decisions (will be) on public display. Do not think that the public display will be reserved for some final day, at the end of the seven years.

Revelation 14:6-7 AMPC  Then I saw another angel flying in midair, with an eternal Gospel (good news) to tell to the inhabitants of the earth, to every race and tribe and language and people.  (7)  And he cried with a mighty voice, Revere God and give Him glory (honor and praise in worship), for the hour of His judgment has arrived. Fall down before Him; pay Him homage and adoration and worship Him Who created heaven and earth, the sea and the springs (fountains) of water.

I have made you aware of the seals that John saw, and how each one brings terrible destruction with it. Each of these is wrath from God upon those who rejected Him (this is a big group which includes the nations and the Jews); those who harmed His people, and those who damaged the earth; and, all will see this wrath. And, every one of these angels announces their actions with a tremendous blast of a ram's horn – a shofar or, as some call it, a trumpet.

When this process begins, there will be no mistaking what has happened.
Revelation 1:7 AMPC  Behold, He is coming with the clouds, and every eye will see Him, even those who pierced Him; and all the tribes of the earth shall gaze upon Him and beat their breasts and mourn and lament over Him. Even so [must it be]. Amen (so be it). [Dan 7:13; Zec 12:10]

Only moments ago I spoke of the nations rejoicing, and yet here in Revelation I see them mourning and lamenting; which is it?

Maybe Zechariah answers the question best.
Zechariah 12:10 AMPC  And I will pour out upon the house of David and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem the Spirit of grace or unmerited favor and supplication. And they shall look [earnestly] upon Me Whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for Him as one mourns for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for Him as one who is in bitterness for his firstborn. [John 19:37; Rev 1:7]

I have heard this regrettable statement come from the mouths of Bible teachers, “the Holy Spirit will be lifted with the Church!” That concept is far from the truth, as you can see the Spirit of grace and unmerited favor still being poured out on the earth. Zechariah 12:10 and Revelation 1:7 both tell us that every eye will see Him, and shall mourn. Perhaps that mourning is the recognition that our sin put Jesus on the cross. Maybe, it is our sudden understanding that we could have had a relationship with the Father, and we have lost precious years.

I understand lost time because I lost two daughters to foolishness, and, I can tell you that I mourned with tears for some time. A day comes when you have to stop weeping and return to productive life once again, but you never forget.


Jesus wasted no time, and did not stay dead, neither could a tomb hold Him. He exploded from the grave three days later, with life; the promise of the Holy Spirit; empowerment, and the guarantee that He would come back and gather those that long for Him. We like to call that gathering the rapture. But, the story doesn't stop there, as this unmerited favor Zechariah speaks continues to flow toward all people. The prophecies of old, talking to those who would listen, told of what Jesus would do, and then He did it, just as He said. Therefore, we have verifiable testimony that this hope of a life with the Father, we cling to, is real. He is coming back, and my heart cries out for that day.