Where the whore is. Revelation 17:15-18.

 In the previous post, I tried to give you a commentary on Revelation 17:12-14 based upon logic, scripture associations, historical evidence, and a bit of influence from other commentaries. I ended on Revelation 17:14. This is what verse 14 says.

"These will wage war against the Lamb, and the Lamb will overcome them, because He is Lord of lords and King of kings, and those who are with Him are the called and chosen and faithful." (Revelation 17:14 NASB)

The “these” is referring to kings that rise up – use that term kings lightly as it also refers to rulers and ruling bodies.

Waging war is in this case, limited to the time when Jesus comes back to earth as the warring Messiah that Israel has longed for. Verse 14 says “and those who are with Him are the called, the chosen, and the faithful.”

The word called is the Greek word klētos and means the invited or appointed.

Called, this word works, especially if you picture God looking over the earth and all who have been born or unborn and called them all to come back to Him. Not only were we all invited, but God takes it one step further, in that we have been appointed.

Appointed, according to Webster's dictionary means fixed; set; established; decreed; ordained; constituted; allotted. 2. Furnished; equipped with things necessary; as a ship or an army is well appointed.

Try this on for size.

You have been decreed and ordained, before you were ever thought of, to be equipped with the things necessary, to function as an emissary for and to God.

For those who wish to argue.

"Before I formed you in the womb, I knew you; before you were born, I separated you for myself..." (Jeremiah 1:5a CJB)

Chosen is the Greek word eklektos. Other, more dominant usage options are select; and by implication favorite.

And the final word used to designate those who will be with Him is faithful.

Faithful is the Greek word pistos. Pistos also means a trusty person who shows themselves faithful in - the transaction of business, the execution of commands, or the discharge of official duties.

It also applies to:
- One who kept his plighted faith;

Plighted ranges between pledged and difficult. Some, after some missionary comes back and gives the entire church their field report, may decide to make a faith pledge that they will never keep. On the other hand, it seems this life of faith we live is filled with difficulties.

- One who is worthy of trust.
- And, those that can be relied on.

The first two terms (called and chosen,) can easily be seen as characteristics of a believer in Jesus Christ, as these terms are frequently applied to a Christian; this does not mean that the “Christian” will follow after or walk in their calling. The last term, faithful, can apply to a wide variety of people, and many of them are not in your church body. Consider Matthew 25 and the sheep and goats.

As we saw in the last post scripture interprets itself.

Revelation 17:15 CJB  Then he said to me, "The waters that you saw, where the whore is sitting, are peoples, crowds, nations, and languages.

As I talk with people in church few understand what the nations are. Perhaps this will help your understanding. There are only three people groups in the Bible.

• The Jews

  This is also deemed to be Israel.

• The nations

  The Jews call anyone outside of Judaism, the Gentiles. We, believers, are considered Gentiles, but we are NOT.

• And the church.

  To the Jews, the church is nonexistent, however, to the believer in Christ we are the church, and the church is in Christ Jesus. If a Jew comes to Christ then they are a part of the body and can also be a Jew. And, in a sense, we were all from the nations but are now in Christ. Very soon the church will be caught up to be with Jesus in the air, at that point there will only be two people groups on earth.

“The waters that you saw, where the whore is sitting, are peoples, crowds, nations and languages.”

Then one of the seven angels who had the seven bowls came and spoke with me, saying, "Come here, I will show you the judgment of the great harlot who sits on many waters, (Revelation 17:1 NASB)

So the whore of Babylon is truly dealing with the nations – the Gentiles. Remember, if you are NOT a Jew, you are a Gentile; this includes the Ishmaelites - the Islamic nations, and all other third world nations.

If the whore represents the filthy rich, then how and why would they have anything to do with the downtrodden, the poor, the dirty, and the enslaved, you should be getting the idea?

Revelation 17:16 NASB "And the ten horns which you saw, and the beast, these will hate the harlot and will make her desolate and naked, and will eat her flesh and will burn her up with fire.

• “ And the ten horns which you saw, and the beast,”

  These are two different entities, although they worked toward what we consider a common goal. Remember, the horns represent kingdoms or empires; this applies to both physical and financial empires.

  This is why God is causing them to go astray so that they will believe the Lie.
  (2 Thessalonians 2:11 CJB)

  Context, Paul wrote this letter to a Jewish community of Christ-followers. So when Paul says “them”, he is including the Jews in this group of people that can and will go astray and believe “the lie.”

  What is the lie?

  Paul does not define it, and yet, like in the movie “The Matrix,” the lie is all around you. I hear this in my spirit, many will read this statement and say, you stupid conspiracy theorist. Let me show you something.

  Do not love the world or the things of the world. If someone loves the world, then love for the Father is not in him; because all the things of the world—the desires of the old nature, the desires of the eyes, and the pretensions of life—are not from the Father but from the world. And the world is passing away, along with its desires. But whoever does God's will remains forever. (1 John 2:15-17 CJB)

  There, in 1 John 2, is the Matrix analogy.

  It is the drive to dominate, the lust for money, and the power they think it brings. It is intertwined throughout our governing bodies. It is an intricate aspect of “the swamp” that former President Trump described. And worse yet, for the beast, which will, in the last minutes of time will be a man, it will be the false belief that through his deceit and power grab, he believes his ideologies will overthrow God.

  The beast, while playing the game, will seem to have the same goal, global domination, but with an Islamic background, one that claims to abide by the Quran, his goal will be to make everyone a follower of Allah or they die. For the horns, the goal is global domination where they are treated in the manner in which they have become accustomed. Add this to the drive to bring the population down to a manageable level of about 400 million. Just for the fun of it, there are approximately 7.7 billion people on the earth today. Consider food for a moment, here in America it has become quite obvious that food shortages (an event that the Bible tells us will happen,) are man-made.

  Do you think for a moment that those who hold the power will do without?

  Not a chance. While we eat veggie burgers, they will dine on prime rib.

• “they will hate the whore, bring her to ruin, leave her naked, eat her flesh and consume her with fire. “

  We are still on Revelation 17:16 talking about the whore that rides the beast. As you might have noticed, I gave you the Complete Jewish Bible translation, and this is the language that they have used. “They,” in context, is the beast, however, the usage of the term they certainly move this beyond a singular man as the beast.

  Look at what the “they” do to these “rich” people do.

  • They hate the whore,

  • Bring her to ruin,

  • Leave her naked,

  • Eat her flesh,

  • And, consume her with fire.

What kind of backing would it take to take down George Soros, Bill Gates, and Klaus Schwab at one time?

A massive economic collapse might do it.

Revelation 17:17 CJB  For God put it in their hearts to do what will fulfill his purpose, that is, to be of one mind and give their kingdom to the beast until God's words have accomplished their intent.

• “ For God put it in their hearts”

  “Their hearts,” is referring to the people who have already aligned, and those who will align themselves with the beast/antichrist.

• “to do what will fulfill his purpose,”

  So the question is, whose purpose? Well, the answer is both; God has a purpose, and it will be fulfilled. The beast has a purpose that will also be fulfilled but there is a catch, it is all God's purpose. Let me show you.

  In their hearts, humans plan their course, but the LORD establishes their steps.
  (Proverbs 16:9 NIV)

  Another place where we see God's purpose demonstrated is in Genesis 37.

  Joseph's brothers threw him into a dry well with the apparent intent of killing him.

  Judah said to his brothers, "What will we gain if we kill our brother and cover up his blood? (Genesis 37:26 NIV)

  When a band of Ishmaelites came by the brothers opted to sell him. The Ishmaelites took him into Egypt and sold him. None of them had any idea that a massive drought was coming. Joseph rises to power and ends up serving God's purpose as he saves the entire family during the years of drought.

• “that is, to be of one mind and give their kingdom to the beast until God's words have accomplished their intent.”

  God's purpose is to cause them to be of one mind; to give their kingdom to the beast; and, for that to happen until God's words have accomplished their intent.

In finishing Revelation 17 we have this.

Revelation 17:18 NASB "The woman whom you saw is the great city, which reigns over the kings of the earth."

• “And the woman you saw is the great city that rules over the kings of the earth.”

  What or where is the great city?

  I strongly suggest that it is Israel. Evidence for that, and it should be scriptural, although even scripture has a historical aspect to it.

  A Song; a Psalm of the sons of Korah. Great is the LORD, and greatly to be praised, In the city of our God, His holy mountain. Beautiful in elevation, the joy of the whole earth, Is Mount Zion in the far north, The city of the great King.
  (Psalms 48:1-2 NASB)

  Another piece of information that feeds into this great city being Israel.

  When they have finished their testimony, the beast that comes up out of the abyss will make war with them, overcome them and kill them. And their dead bodies will lie in the street of the great city which mystically is called Sodom and Egypt, where also their Lord was crucified. (Revelation 11:7-8 NASB)

  • When it refers to “they” here it is talking about the two witnesses that were sent from God.

  • Finished – having been here for 1240 days, they are done speaking and God allows them to be killed. They will be resurrected but not for three days. Quite symbolic, don't you think?

  • Their bodies will lie in the street of the great city which is called Sodom and Egypt, where also their Lord was crucified.

    Where does God put the two witnesses? Right in the middle of Jerusalem. The passage calls Jerusalem the great city.

    So, are the two witnesses lying in physical Babylon? NO, they are lying in the streets of Jerusalem.

    Did you notice that Jerusalem is referred to as Sodom and Egypt? This should be eye-opening, but there is a problem because it (sarcastically) says, where also their Lord was crucified.

    Where was Jesus crucified? On a hill called Golgotha, the highest point in Jerusalem.

Revelation 17 closes with “The woman whom you saw is the great city, which reigns over the kings of the earth.” Merely because the harlot has a name associated with Babylon through comments like “the great city” which most assume to be physical Babylon; and, the idea that this great city rules over the kings of the earth, does not mean it is Babylon. We have more evidence in scripture that tells us this is Israel. One of those examples comes from Ezekiel 16.

Everyone who makes up proverbs will say of you, ‘Like mother, like daughter.’
(Ezekiel 16:44 NLT)

Here again, most will assume this is referring to Babylon. If you chose to investigate the context of Ezekiel chapter 16, you would find that God is talking about Israel. This showing of evidence can drag out for pages, so I will leave that to you.

As I started pursuing an understanding of Revelation 17:18 I became aware that some will allow this to fire their prejudice and antisemitism, and go on rants against Israel and the Jews. I am saying this because I have heard it, and the majority has come out of the mouths of “Christian” folk. You should know that Israel is the center of God's heart and He will never forget Israel and His people. How fortunate we Gentiles are that we have been allowed to be grafted into the vine. Oh, and that Bible you are reading is a Jewish-oriented book. Maybe it's time we adjust our thinking?

The ten horns which you saw. Revelation 17:12-14

 In studying Revelation 17:10, we saw the term seven used multiple times about the mountain on which the harlot sits, which also represents seven kings. Those kings are the final and fourth kingdom. I realize that may be hard to grasp, but it is there in the dream statue of Nebuchadnezzar.

Everything that appears after Alexander the Great works to fulfill the fourth empire and begins with both the Ptolemaic and Seleucid empires that rose after the death of Alexander. Just because the composition changes from brass to iron only serves to modify the leadership and direction of the beast.

I tend to emphasize Islam as a leading player in the end times, but I do not exclude a majority of our global leadership. For example, suppose you per-chanced to look at an ancestral association map that includes the beginnings of America. In that case, you will observe a relatively common heritage that will take you back to the Seleucid and Ptolemaic empires. Coincidence, I think not.

As we progress, we find out that there is the eighth beast, and he is one of the seven.

Revelation 17:10-12 MKJV And there are seven kings; five have fallen, and one is, and the other has not yet come. And when he comes, he must continue a short time. (11) And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goes into perdition. (12) And the ten horns which you saw are ten kings, who have received no kingdom yet, but will receive authority as kings one hour with the beast.

Because I have pushed Islam as part of the answer, you have to ask a logical question.

When does Islam show up? 

Not until sometime around 600 A.D.

When does the Apostle John write the Revelation?

Somewhere around 95 A.D. So, John knew nothing about Islam or Mohammad as that was 500 years into the future. So Islam does not fit into the passage above.

Revelation 17:10 gave us one more massive clue as to who this king is in that it tells us that he must continue a short time. It was not that difficult to associate this "king" (king equals a dominant leader) with the antichrist or the false prophet. We assume that the antichrist reigns for at least seven years. However, Daniel 11 demonstrates that this character does not fully cooperate with the world's leaders. The ships of Kittim, which happens to be the coastal nations of the Northern and Western Mediterranean ocean, will come against him and cause him to back down; this is when we see the false prophet step in; and, though it seems as though he is following this ruler, he seems to take the lead and initiates a slaughter of anyone who demonstrates allegiance to Jesus Christ.

I hope you understand that this break in allegiance, the possible attack by the ships of "Kittim," and the entrance of the false prophet all happens at the midpoint of the seven years of God's wrath upon the earth. The wrath of God and the entry of the antichrist initiated with the removal of the church from the world.

Back to Revelation 17:11.

The beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goes into perdition.

• So "the beast was."

These kings that we refer to were discussed in Daniel 11, albeit in terms that make no sense to most unless you validate them through historical accounts.

Undoubtedly, you can comprehend the range of years that they covered. https://www.faimission.org/wire/special-report-ships-of-kittim

• But "now, is NOT,"

  An obvious factor is that many of the rulers that make up the fourth beast have been defeated, displaced, and are physically gone. 

  If I was trying to focus on Islam as a motivator, I am hard-pressed to see the relationship; unless I consider that the iron legs of this statue are primarily Assyrian. 

  So, if I ask the question, what aspect of these "empires" is NOT gone, I believe the answer would be that they are descendants of Ishmael, whom God promised would also be as the sands of the sea and great nations.

  We are frequently told that a technique used to study the Bible is to let scripture interpret scripture, so here is an example of that. A passage that speaks to a powerful empire disappearing is Revelation 13:3. 

  I saw that one of the heads of the beast seemed wounded beyond recovery—but the fatal wound was healed! The whole world marveled at this miracle and gave allegiance to the beast. (Revelation 13:3 NLT)

  The empire that fits this description all too well is the Ottoman Empire which effectively ended November 1, 1922. The known world breathed a sigh of relief as the piracy on the Mediterranean sea and wanton slavery of its victims was rampant.

• “he is the eighth and, is of the seven, -”

  He is the eighth what, a king, an empire, or a beast? The answer is yes, and this will all become clear momentarily.

  I could take the easy way out and call him a part of the Roman Empire, merely because that is a common but misguided argument. In my opinion, this argument is irresponsible because it demonstrates that they are not willing to do the work or accept historical testimony.

  Look, according to Josephus and Tacitus, historians who documented the influence of Rome in Jerusalem during the destruction of the temple, both told us that it was Assyrian conscript troops that destroyed the temple, against orders from Titus, the Roman General.

  Because I know from Revelation 17:11 that the eighth “king” goes into perdition, then I know that he is either the antichrist or the false prophet.

  We rarely visualize the false prophet as a global leader, but there is no doubt that this persecution of Christ-followers and those who refuse to worship the beast, will lead to death. Perhaps he does have a global influence; this global power makes sense if you can see it from the perspective of an Islamic follower.

• “and, goes into perdition.”

  Verse eleven helps us to understand what this person is as it tells us that “he goes to destruction.” We religious folk consistently proclaim that there are people already in hell, with more to come. However, according to scripture, that is NOT a true statement. The only place we humans are sent to hell, up to this point, is in Revelation 19 when Jesus comes riding back to the earth to do battle. Here, only two humans are sent to the lake of fire, the beast, which is the antichrist, and the second beast, the false prophet.

  So the defining piece of information comes from Revelation 19:20 below, where we see the antichrist and the false prophet being thrown into the lake of fire.

  And the beast was seized, and with him, the false prophet who performed the signs in his presence, by which he deceived those who had received the mark of the beast and those who worshiped his image; these two were thrown alive into the lake of fire which burns with brimstone. (Revelation 19:20 NASB)

  Having had these discussions, I know that arguments will come, so I will show you the evidence.

  And the rest were killed with the sword which came from the mouth of Him who sat on the horse, and all the birds were filled with their flesh. (Revelation 19:21 NASB)

  The rest?

  All those who chose to fight with Jesus and the armies of heaven on that day. Remember, this Bible is context-oriented and the contest has, at this moment, everything to do with Jesus coming

  So where are they and what has become of them?

  They are merely sleeping in their graves.

  They have left me among the dead, and I lie like a corpse in a grave. I am forgotten, cut off from your care. (Psalms 88:5 NLT)

  The dead cannot sing praises to the LORD, for they have gone into the silence of the grave. (Psalms 115:17 NLT)

  The living at least know they will die, but the dead know nothing...
  (Ecclesiastes 9:5 NLT)

  Matthew 25 tells us that the nations will be gathered for the final judgment.

  All the nations will be gathered in his presence, and he will separate the people as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. (Matthew 25:32 NLT)

  Some will say, this passage in Matthew 25 has nothing to do with the dead; that assertion is wrong since Matthew depicts the final judgment.

  "Then he will say to those on his left (the goats,) 'Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.
  (Matthew 25:41 NIV)

  Since we do not accept the testimony of one witness then there has to be another example from scripture, and there is, you find it in Revelation 20. Here, instead of saying nations, He calls them the dead.

  And I saw a great white throne and the one sitting on it. The earth and sky fled from his presence, but they found no place to hide. I saw the dead, both great and small, standing before God’s throne. And the books were opened, including the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to what they had done, as recorded in the books. (Revelation 20:11-12 NLT)

Revelation 20:15 spells out plainly, that those NOT found in the book of life are cast into the same lake of fire.

Anyone whose name was not found written in the book of life was thrown into the lake of fire. (Revelation 20:15 NIV)

If you are honest, then you must admit that both Matthew's account and Revelation 20 are the same scenarios just from different points of view. In one, we see God sitting on the throne, while in the other we see Jesus sitting on the throne. In one case He is the shepherd and in the other, He comes across as the ominous judge. Since Jesus told us that He and the Father are one, then it is God in both instances.

Revelation 17:12 NASB "The ten horns which you saw are ten kings who have not yet received a kingdom, but they receive authority as kings with the beast for one hour.

The Greek word for an hour is hōra and can mean a limited portion of time, a season of the year, or a destined period.

If it is a destined period, who has established the time?

God.

Whether it's ten mountains or ten kings, we are being directed to the same ruling bodies. Horns emerge from these seven empires and they are ten more rulers. We know little about who these are except that they have yet to receive authority as leaders of the people for one hour. Revelation 12:3 tells us that there were seven heads but ten horns. Obviously, some of these empires have multiple rulers. Daniel chapter two is where we find the dream statue of Nebuchadnezzar. Here we have these final kings detailed as toes. Daniel 7 speaks of one of those horns, the antichrist.

“While I was contemplating the horns, behold, another horn, a little one, came up among them, and three of the first horns were pulled out by the roots before it; and behold, this horn possessed eyes like the eyes of a man and a mouth uttering great boasts.”

(Daniel 7:8 NASB)

These have one purpose.

Revelation 17:13 NASB "These have one purpose, and they give their power and authority to the beast.

The ten horns that emerge from the seven heads, have one purpose, to give their power to the beast.

Revelation 17:14 NASB "These will wage war against the Lamb, and the Lamb will overcome them, because He is Lord of lords and King of kings, and those who are with Him are the called and chosen and faithful."

They give their power to the antichrist and they, in union with the antichrist, wage war against the Lamb.

When does the antichrist and these horns wage this war?

At the end of the seven years when Jesus comes back as the warring Messiah. Read Revelation 19 for the details on this war.

The ABC’s of Salvation

A stands for “admit.” We must admit that we are sinners and that we are therefore under God’s judgment.

B stands for “believe.” We must believe that God loves us in spite of our sin and that he has acted in Jesus Christ to remove sin and restore us to himself.

C stands for “commit.” This is an act of faith by which we give up trying to run our own lives and instead place ourselves in the hands of the Lord Jesus Christ, who died for us and rose again.