Where do we go when we die? An edited repost that is always pertinent.

 Several years ago, a brother in Christ opened his home a couple of times a month, and a few of us gathered for a home church meeting. This brother-in-Christ did the teaching/preaching and, on one Saturday night, attempted to cover the question – where do we go when we die?

He had a well-drawn graphic that showed what many call the upper level of hell and the lower level. So while he had some additional terminology, essentially what we saw, according to our teacher that night, is representative of hell.

In theory, all this conjecture about multiple layers of hell is based on the “story” about the rich man and the poor beggar Lazarus that Jesus told. (I am convinced that these were real people.) As you may

remember, Lazarus the beggar was now comforted in Abraham's bosom, while the nameless rich man was now in torment, separated by a great gulf. As the evening progressed, all we saw in the graphic were interpreted as spiritual places. I had to question that concept because the rich man was in torment, and his condition sounded very physical to me.

He opened by asking the group this question, do you believe you would be in the Lord's presence when you die?

I was unclear about what he was trying to accomplish, so I asked him if he wanted a response from the group. He replied, yes. While a few others raised their hands, I was, in those few seconds, the only one with my hand up and added because to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord.
I said nothing more to clarify my statement, as almost every follower of Christ has heard this passage at some point.

“Now He who prepared us for this very purpose is God, who gave to us the Spirit as a pledge. Therefore, being always of good courage, and knowing that while we are at home in the body we are absent from the Lord--for we walk by faith, not by sight--we are of good courage, I say, and prefer rather to be absent from the body and to be at home with the Lord. Therefore we also have as our ambition, whether at home or absent, to be pleasing to Him.” (2 Corinthians 5:5-9 NASB)

Apparently, our leader had not heard nor read this passage before; and though he said nothing as a challenge, his utterances indicated disbelief. Several minutes later, another brother-in-Christ interjected with 2 Corinthians 5:5-9, to which the leader replied, Oh, is that in the Bible?

Allow me a quick breakdown of the passage above.

Because He gave us the Spirit (think Holy Spirit), we can have solid confidence that once we are absent from this body, we are present with the Lord. Most followers of Christ feel this all the time.

What followed was a question/statement from the group leader that went like this: 

Then, is it true that the dead know nothing and merely lay in the ground until some day of judgment? 

Again I replied, yes, both statements are true, (However, the question makes no distinction between a child of God and a non-believer, and that is a problem.) The group leader was clearly undone and would not acknowledge or look at me. I know it is not all about me, but some form of recognition that you heard what I said would be nice. (In all honesty, I was mad also. Don't get me wrong, I like the guy, but I can't stand false teaching, and I did not come back for several weeks. When I did come back, it was like a God thing, as a dear lady that had also spoken up at the previous meeting was there. When the leader opened the meeting this night, he abruptly said we should keep our opinions to ourselves. Whoa, you asked for input, and we, both, refuted with the Word of God. This was the last time I went to this home meeting. Not to worry about this brother, though, for Pastor gave him a group teaching slot at church; and no, I do not go to this church anymore either.)

Ecclesiastes 9:5 NLT  “The living at least know they will die, but the dead know nothing. They have no further reward, nor are they remembered.”

Since I read this passage, I have understood that the dead lie in the ground, in some form of sleep, until they are awakened and brought before the great white for final judgment. (Note. If you are in the Lord and die, where are you? The answer lies in 2 Corinthians 5:8, where the believers are immediately present with the Lord.)

Something doesn't make sense, for there are stories of people that have died and spent time in hell, and they describe it as pure torment. If the dead lie there quietly, then how do these people get taken into hell? This gives me grief as, in my understanding, NO ONE is in hell nor goes there until the final judgment at the great white throne at the end of the thousand years.

(Just a touch of clarification. When Jesus physically comes back to earth, one of the first things He does is to grab the antichrist and the false prophet and throw them alive into the lake of fire. These two are the only ones sent to eternal punishment until after the great white throne).

Let me show you what I might use to substantiate what I understand about the dead. Most people seem to struggle because they see these from the nations and assume they are alive. Remember that death is a relative term, as all of us have eternal spirits, and we never really die.

Matthew 25:31-34 NASB "But when the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the angels with Him, then He will sit on His glorious throne. (32) "All the nations will be gathered before Him; and He will separate them from one another, as the shepherd separates the sheep from the goats; (33) and He will put the sheep on His right, and the goats on the left. (34) "Then the King will say to those on His right, 'Come, you who are blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world.”

Alright, then, how do we understand this?

First, this is the same scenario that we see in Revelation 20.

“Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat upon it, from whose presence earth and heaven fled away, and no place was found for them. (12) And I saw the dead, the great and the small, standing before the throne, and books were opened; and another book was opened, which is the book of life; and the dead were judged from the things which were written in the books, according to their deeds. (13) And the sea gave up the dead which was in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead which was in them; and they were judged, every one of them according to their deeds.”
Revelation 20:11-13 NASB

For comparison, I give you Matthew's account.

“When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:” Matthew 25:31 KJV 

Secondly, pay attention to the thrones.

• In Matthew, it is His glorious throne, and in Revelation 20, it is a great white throne.

  Why should we see any distinction between great and glorious?

  Great is the Greek word mégas. It is an adjective describing size, such as: Great, large, particularly of physical magnitude.

  Throne thrónos - A seat, usually high and having a footstool, a throne as the emblem of royal authority.

  Glory/glorious is the Gk word dóxa. It is a noun and means to think (about) or recognize (His) Glory.

  In both the throne of Revelation 20 and Matthew 25, the throne is to be seen as an emblem of royal authority. Matthew's account also shows Jesus coming in a manner in which those witnessing His "entrance" recognize His glory.

• In the Revelation account, we only perceive those before the throne to be dead, while Matthew's rendition presents them as alive.

  Death, it would seem, is a relative term since our spirits are eternal and we never die. Therefore, all these people may be spirits. (Since we are reattached to improved versions of our bodies, then maybe God will do the same with these “dead” so that they can fully understand the agonizing discomfort of hell if that is where they will go.)

  On the cross, Jesus cried out, my God, why have you forsaken me. We understand that He experienced a total and complete separation from the Father, and that is the ultimate death.

• In the Revelation account, we see the book of life; however, all we see is the result of those not being found in the book. In contrast, Matthew's account shows us no books in the event, yet many receive mercy. 

Revelation 20:15 NASB “And if anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.”

The assumption most make as they read about the great white throne is that no one is found worthy of salvation, and all are thrown into the lake of fire, henceforth hell. But an honest inquiry into this verse will show you that Revelation 20:12 speaks of books; the implication is that God is desperately looking through those books for those to which He can show mercy. To see this any other way is nothing less than a cruel and morbid joke on God's part, for He knew whether He would find their names in those books and is, therefore, merely having fun at the expense of those standing there. Anyone who understands God's nature knows that this scenario will never happen. 

“just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we would be holy and blameless before Him. In love.” (Ephesians 1:4 NASB)

King David, a man who sinned frequently, said,

“Your eyes have seen my unformed substance; And in Your book were all written The days that were ordained for me, When as yet there was not one of them.”
(Psalms 139:16 NASB)

He already knows what is written in those books.

Consider this. God so loved this world so much that even while they spit in His face, He gave His only Son, Jesus, so that through the horrors of death, He could redeem the world, and then they could love Him freely if they chose. 

In contrast to the Revelation account, Matthew tells us that He already knows the answer to what His eyes were searching for in those books and, therefore, separates the crowd into sheep and goats. He gives those He deems sheep entrance into the kingdom of peace.

The people in the sheep category seem puzzled, knowing that they did not measure up by religious standards, and ask, what did we do to deserve entrance into the kingdom of Heaven? 

"Then the King will say to those on His right, 'Come, you who are blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world. (35) 'For I was hungry, and you gave Me something to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave Me something to drink; I was a stranger, and you invited Me in; (36) naked, and you clothed Me; I was sick, and you visited Me; I was in prison, and you came to Me.' (37) "Then the righteous will answer Him, 'Lord, when did we see You hungry, and feed You, or thirsty, and give You something to drink? (38) 'And when did we see You a stranger, and invite You in, or naked, and clothe You? (39) 'When did we see You sick, or in prison, and come to You?' (40) "The King will answer and say to them, 'Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did it to one of these brothers of Mine, even the least of them, you did it to Me.” Matthew 25:34-40 NASB

What did they do that gained their entrance into the kingdom?

They acted in the nature and character of God.

So back to the problems with the graphics I started with and the multi-layered hell.

While it is clear that this was understood by the Jews during Jesus' time on earth, we have nothing beyond the resurrection (primarily Paul's writings) that would enforce a multi-layered hell. 

If Paul did not preach it, why should I?

Paul wrote about the dead in Christ in an attempt to address such misconceptions.

“For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. (17) Then we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall always be with the Lord.”
1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 NASB

Paul used the word nekrós, which means a corpse, when he spoke of the dead in 1 Thessalonians. So the dead then is merely corpses' catching up with the spirit, which is already with Jesus, if you are a believer. I have thought about the whys of needing our corpses, and I suspect God could merely make another body for us if we needed it, but then, Jesus did not just leave His lying around, did He. (As a side note. The sinful nature is attached to the living body. If you think about how taking a bite out of a piece of fruit can permanently change you, then you have to be talking about genetics. We have, in the last two years, seen for ourselves, if we were paying attention, that an injection can affect our DNA. Once the DNA code is changed in one, then everything produced by that one impacts all future progeny. But it wasn't just one, and therefore, one human escaped the damage.

Well, how do you get rid of the damage?

It has to be killed, and suddenly this change (in a twinkling of an eye) that we all must go through begins to look like the death of the body. Remember,

“And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:”
(Hebrews 9:27 KJV)

And we have two known humans that, as far as we know, did not die as yet, Enoch and Elijah, but those two, standing in the streets of Jerusalem, will someday die and fulfill the requirement. This death/judgment is something only God can do, so don't try to take matters into your own hands, as that is stupid and exactly what Satan wants you to do – as it removes you from usefulness here on earth.

Now, imagine if Peter and John had returned to the tomb and found His body lying there; the entirety of the resurrection would have been undone in this scenario. And, when Jesus showed himself to the 120 in the upper room, He showed them that same physical body. It was proof of His resurrection, and it validated His previous statements.

I suspect we have more than a couple of significant players in our misconceptions about hell. 

1. Dante Alighieri and his book The Inferno.

2. The book is known to have been a method to confront what he perceived as religious: persecution, error, disagreement, and graft. Dante placed real people in various levels of his creation, each group having its own nasty punishment. Dante showed some mercy by implying that his victims could earn their way out, although none ever made it out.

3. The Catholic Church seems to have adopted the concepts within Dante's book. One of those concepts is purgatory. From what I understand, if you comply with some monetary demand, you can buy your way out. It did not happen to any of Dante's characters and has not happened here on earth.

4. The last and most damaging story is about the poor beggar Lazarus and the wealthy Jewish man. So let's pursue this for a moment.

The passage in Luke is detailed and lengthy, so I am t going to put the entire thing in here. But, suffice it to say; the rich man is still attempting to order Lazarus around, and the rich man is in torment, while Lazarus is not.

“... Now the poor man died and was carried away by the angels to Abraham's bosom; and the rich man also died and was buried. (23) "In Hades he lifted up his eyes, being in torment, and *saw Abraham far away and Lazarus in his bosom. (24) "And he cried out and said, 'Father Abraham, have mercy on me,... (25) "But Abraham said, 'Child, remember that during your life you received your good things, and likewise Lazarus bad things; but now he is being comforted here, and you are in agony. (26) 'And besides all this, between us and you, there is a great chasm fixed, so that those who wish to come over from here to you will not be able, and that none may cross over from there to us. ...” Luke 16:19-31 NASB

“Now the poor man died and was carried away by the angels to Abraham's bosom.”

What is the difference between the event that Jesus described and how we should perceive this today?

The resurrection.

Here, in Luke's gospel, Jesus is talking to Jews who have little to no comprehension of grace nor of the catching away of the Church. The Jews do, however, understand that the soul seems to lie in a state of waiting. In Ecclesiastes, we learn that.

Ecclesiastes 9:5 KJV  For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not anything, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.

Another source of Jewish understanding comes from King David.

Psalms 31:17 KJV  Let me not be ashamed, O LORD; for I have called upon thee: let the wicked be ashamed, and let them be silent in the grave.

Again, the general idea is that the dead lie in silence until called.

In looking at the word paradise, which comes up in the conversation between Jesus and the thief on the cross, we see Jesus saying,

"Truly I tell you, today you will be with me in paradise." Luke 23:43b NIV

In the Jewish understanding, the word paradisos is an oriental word that the Greeks borrowed from the Persians, among whom it meant a garden, park, or enclosure full of all the vegetable products of the earth. ...The original Eastern word pardes occurs in Neh_2:8; Ecc_2:5; Son_4:13. In Sanskrit, paradésha, and paradisha meant a land elevated and cultivated. In Armenian, pardes means a garden around the house planted with grass, herbs, and trees for food and ornament. The Sept. uses it to refer to the Garden of Eden (Gen_2:8). In later Jewish usage and in the NT, parádeisos is used for the abode of the blessed after death. Paradise, before Christ's resurrection, has been thought to be the region of the blessed in Hades, although it was not specifically called by that name (Luk_16:23). [From the Word Study Dictionary]

And finally, the early church deemed paradise to be an upper level of heaven where the dead would wait.

Paradise is but an Anglicized form of the Greek word παράδεισος. It does not occur in the Old Testament, in the English version, but is used in the Septuagint to translate the Hebrew gân, גָּן, a garden (Gen_2:8 sq.), and thence found its way into the New Testament, where it is applied figuratively to the celestial dwelling of the righteous, in allusion to the Garden of Eden (2Co_12:4; Rev_2:7). It has thus come into familiar use to denote both that garden and the heaven of the just. Cyclopedia of Biblical, Theological, and Ecclesiastical Literature

It does not matter how eloquently you deliver the evidence that backs your thesis or arguments against some false or skewed teaching; someone will have a comeback. The mere fact that the rich man was in torment, and there is the possibility that he could see the beggar Lazarus in Abraham's bosom, only fuels their fire. This is, again, one of those places where looking up the simplest of words, such as “saw,” where you can gain some additional understanding.

“and the rich man also died and was buried. (23) "In Hades he lifted up his eyes, being in torment,”

Torment is the Greek word basanos and also means torture. The NASB tells us that he saw Lazarus. The word saw is the Greek word horaō and means to stare at (by implication) to discern clearly (physically or mentally.)

So, none of us can prove that the man could even see Lazarus, and therefore it would be just as easy to assume that the rich man was allowed to discern mentally that Abraham now held Lazarus peacefully and securely. If there is a point to this, it is this, refrain from preaching and teaching things you do not have an accurate understanding about unless you are willing to humble yourself and tell the people that you really don't know, that this is your opinion and that they should search the scriptures to gain a clearer picture.

We were also told by this brother-in-Christ, that led the home group, that he did not have a complete confidence in his relationship with Jesus Christ and would not until that day when we are called home. This is not what Paul and others taught. Jesus and this Word give us every confidence to know that we are loved, and wanted, and since we have accepted Jesus Christ as our sacrifice, then we can know that we, NO MATTER WHAT, have a home with Him in glory.

What can we know about Heaven?

 When it comes to heaven, our primary source of information comes from the book of Revelation. Yet, by consensus, Revelation is one of the most perplexing books of the Bible, outside of, say, Leviticus and Numbers.

If you want to understand a concept like death, a book like the Revelation, or a construct like Heaven, you should search for corroborating evidence and attestations from the Bible and consider the context.

One other piece of information, which applies to the idea of Heaven that I am going to dive into momentarily, is that this Bible and the book of Revelation, where many of the references to Heaven make their home, is to understand that the Revelation is a Jewish centric book.

Evidence for this assertion comes from Revelation 1:2, where we immediately encounter the proclamation that all of this is "the testimony of Jesus Christ.” This pronouncement should make us concentrate on the fact that the book of Revelation is focused on a Jewish man, God's Son, and the journey He is taking us on.

The second thing that plays a role in how you read and understand the Revelation is that John, for the longest time, focused his attention on the Jewish believers. In other words, John’s primary audience was Jewish believers for the longest time.

Saul was in hearty agreement with putting him to death. And on that day, a great persecution began against the church in Jerusalem, and they were all scattered throughout the regions of Judea and Samaria, except the apostles. (Acts 8:1 NASB)

Their staying in Jerusalem was not fearlessness but a dedication to the Jewish community of believers who accepted Jesus Christ as the Messiah. John maintained that strong Jewish connection and motivation. However, he assumed the reins of one of Paul's established churches with a large congregation of Gentile believers alongside the Jewish followers.

Thirdly, look at the terminology that John uses in Revelation 2:8,9.

"And to the angel of the church in Smyrna write: The first and the last, who was dead, and has come to life, says this: 'I know your tribulation and your poverty (but you are rich), and the blasphemy by those who say they are Jews and are not, but are a synagogue of Satan." (Revelation 2:8-9 NASB)

Why say something like this unless there are Jewish believers there. Gentiles did not go to the synagogue; Jews did, and it would be foolish to use terminology that would make no sense to the Gentiles.

These same concepts apply to the entirety of the Bible, and you see strong evidence for that in Paul's letter to the church in Rome. You also see comparable evidence in the letter to Hebrews – Jewish believers. So, if your Gentile mind is struggling, it will be better for you if you can see it through the eyes of a Jew. (That may sound impossible for some, but you may have to trust the Holy Spirit if you get stuck.)

The motivation for writing about Heaven initiated with the study I have been doing on the Revelation chapters 20-22. These chapters focus on the end of judgment and the new heaven and a new earth. I share these studies with the guys, and they always have questions. Heaven was one of those questions.

One of the men asked about death and Heaven, which prompted him to buy a copy of the book Heaven by Randy Alcorn. I have a copy of that book but have never opened it. The first chapter I read started on page twenty-three. By the time I got to chapter five, page 41, I had run into this statement by Randy Alcorn.

“When a Christian dies, he enters into what is referred to in theology as the intermediate state, a transitional period between our present lives on earth and our future resurrection to life on the New Earth.”

The Oxford languages dictionary tells us that "theology is the study of God and religious belief." While Wikipedia conveys the idea that it is “the systematic study of the nature of the divine and, more broadly, of religious belief.”

So, for someone to say it is referred to in theology, they might as well be telling me that it is the opinion of others; this is effectively what Randy Alcorn conveys to me when he starts talking about a transitional period. I refuse to accept your opinion as something more reasonable than an understanding of the word of God. What matters is what God has to say about it. If your opinion enhances my understanding, great, but you better come up with scriptural witnesses to back up your opinion.

I have read through the entire Bible and have done much studying. Not once did I find the terms transitional or intermediate. I have at least 30 translations of the Bible, and some border on being woke, yet none of them used those terms. So again, I am stuck with the idea that this "transitional or intermediate period" is something that religious folk did with their spare time as they looked for ways to make the Bible more complicated. Now, I can see things that I might interpret as transitional or intermediate, but since scripture does not make a doctrine out of vague allusions, neither am I.

Oh, doctrine, by the way, is “anything taught.” Just because I teach, it does not make it right or Godly. When doing Bible study, a couple of rules are context and applicable scriptural witnesses. So these two terms by Alcorn lean toward strikes one and two in my book.

Alright then, let's examine this part of Randy Alcorn's statement.

“a transitional period between our present lives on earth and our future resurrection to life on the New Earth.”

Just the fact that I am standing here on earth, as a Christian awaiting the call to go home, indicates that I am in transition (I am thinking of my permanent home in heaven, which is with the Father. The details are of minor importance because I will own nothing and be happy about it. I no longer have to fear anything because I will be immortal, untouchable, and, as I said, with the Father.) The problem is, most of us do not seem to know that.

But that does not seem to be what Randy Alcorn is saying. Instead, he implies that we go to some transitional place when we die.

Why would you write something that conflicts with the Apostle Paul’s assertion that our separation, as followers of Christ, from this physical body puts us in the presence of the Lord?

"Therefore, being always of good courage, and knowing that while we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord--for we walk by faith, not by sight--we are of good courage, I say, and prefer rather to be absent from the body and to be at home with the Lord." (2 Corinthians 5:6-8 NASB)

I get it; Paul’s statement is written in reverse, as Paul acknowledges “that while we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord.” But it is not that difficult to comprehend the inverse that for the believer,  we are instantly in the presence of the Lord at death. 

A quick definition. Death is a complete and total separation from His presence. It is not God who has done this; it is you by your rejection of Jesus Christ.

Let's talk about resurrection for a moment.

In the Revelation, we are told the martyred saints are raised from the dead – in other words, their bodies are reattached to their spirits. Why I do not know. You see this first resurrection in Revelation 20, verses 4 and 5.

"Then I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was given to them. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony of Jesus and because of the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received the mark on their forehead and on their hand; and they came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were completed. This is the first resurrection." (Revelation 20:4-5 NASB)

These martyred saints reigned with Christ for a thousand years. I suspect that means they rule over the earth with Him. Ah, but what of the believers? I don't know. I know that we are in Christ, but what that means exactly is not spelled out for us.

Randy Alcorn said we are in "a transitional period between our present lives on earth and our future resurrection to life on the New Earth.”

Surely that means that we are next on the list to be resurrected, right?

We already lost out on the first resurrection opportunity, so maybe we will be next. Wait a minute; Revelation 20:5 tells me that the rest of the dead get resurrected at the end of the thousand years.

Dead? It is unmistakable that we who are in Christ never die. As I was sitting with my friends, talking about Revelation 20, I was asked, when do we die, and where do we go? The answer was, we don't. The Word of God never deems us to be dead (for those who love to argue, the scripture tells us that we were dead in our sins. But having accepted our redemption through Christ, we do not live enslaved to sin anymore, do we.) Revelation 20:12,13 tells us that the dead are resurrected and brought before the great white throne at the end of the thousand years. They are raised to life again for the sole purpose of standing before that throne. Matthew's gospel in chapter 25 tells us that the nations are brought before the same throne, and it makes no mention of whether these people were dead or not. Why do you suppose that is? Because the soul never dies, and they are being identified by that soul and its actions. So, the second resurrection, the last resurrection, has nothing to do with believers who, according to Randy Alcorn, are in a transitional phase when we die.

I am not very familiar with other religions, but one of the Cults believes wholeheartedly that their works may earn them a resurrection to a planet of their own. This bizarre familiarity naturally raises serious concerns about Mr. Alcorn's teachings and even more serious concerns about those pastors who rave about Randy Alcorn's book, Heaven.

I asked the question, at what point does this tired body release its hold on the spirit?

When we physically die or depart with the catching away of the church. I have no idea or care about the body's importance in this transition as mine is old, fat, and hurts everywhere. I do, however, know that Jesus had Thomas touch His scars to prove that He was real, and Jesus sat on the beach and ate fish with the guys. Apparently, it takes a body to do those things. Death for those that are not believers is quite the opposite.

"For the living know that they shall die; but the dead do not know anything, nor do they have any more a reward; for their memory is forgotten." (Ecclesiastes 9:5 MKJV)

Let's say you are proficient with the scriptures and can easily see a context to this verse that leans toward understanding your fate. You might be right; however, if you were to look up the Hebrew for the words know and anything, you would realize that it refers to those whose fate is death without apparent hope.

To know is the Hebrew word yâda' and carries the meanings of perceiving, see, distinguish, recognize, and consider. In other words, in this example, the dead did none of the above.

The Hebrew word for anything is me'ûmâh. It also means a speck or anything at all. So, neither do the dead consider, but once they are dead, they think nothing.

Since Ecclesiastes is marginal as a witness, I suppose you need another to hopefully convince you about this dead "know" nothing stuff.

"Do not trust in princes, In mortal man, in whom there is no salvation. His spirit departs, he returns to the earth; In that very day his thoughts perish."

(Psalms 146:3-4 NASB)

First off, the psalmist talks about mortal man "in whom is NO salvation." This is not a judgment call; it is simply an observation. While the believer returns to the Father, the mortal man returns to the dust, where his very thoughts perish, on that day. Again, the critic might say, of course, in time, we forget about that person unless they made some decisions that we live by. But a statement like this shows that you missed the fact that their thoughts perish, not yours. Like I pointed out with the example from Ecclesiastes, the thought process ceases.

Consider this, if you are transitioning do you know where to?

Dear Lord, I hope so; this is one of the reasons that we learn that Jesus died on a cross for our sins. I believe in that sacrifice that gives me eternal hope in heaven and a life with the Father.

“These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, so that you may know that you have eternal life.” (1 John 5:13 NASB)

On page 42 of his book Heaven, Randy Alcorn says,

“usually when we refer to heaven we mean the place that Christians go when they die. This is what I am calling the present or intermediate Heaven.”

Paragraph two, according to Randy Alcorn, says,

"by definition, an intermediate state or location is temporary. But,… still, the intermediate or present Heaven is not the place we are made for – the place God promises to refashion for us to live forever."

This place we are living in is only temporary. Consider what the writer of Hebrews tells us.

“All these died in faith, without receiving the promises, but having seen them and having welcomed them from a distance, and having confessed that they were strangers and exiles on the earth. For those who say such things make it clear that they are seeking a country of their own. And indeed if they had been thinking of that country from which they went out, they would have had opportunity to return. But as it is, they desire a better country, that is, a heavenly one. Therefore God is not ashamed to be called their God; for He has prepared a city for them.” (Hebrews 11:13-16 NASB)

Having seen them?

How could they have seen heaven or the millennial kingdom? They could not unless they saw it through faith. Jacob saw a ladder (of sorts) coming down out of heaven, and the angels were ascending and descending on that ladder. The Apostle Paul, in 2Corinthians 12:2, tells us that he was caught up to the third heaven.

What does that mean?

We will allow Paul to explain.

“I know a man in Christ who fourteen years ago--whether in the body I do not know, or out of the body I do not know, God knows--such a man was caught up to the third heaven. And I know how such a man--whether in the body or apart from the body I do not know, God knows--was caught up into Paradise and heard inexpressible words, which a man is not permitted to speak.” (2 Corinthians 12:2-4 NASB)

It sounds like a vague reference to someone who doesn't want to identify themselves. Paul is merely trying to keep the focus on Jesus as the Apostle John frequently did in his writings.

Three things jump out at me when I read this passage.

The first is caught up. Many people rant because the word rapture is not in the Bible, and it is not unless you are familiar with the Latin Vulgate, in which case they used the word rapiemur. In our Bibles, the New Testament uses the term Harpazo, which means the same thing and implies a rapid snatching away. The word harpazo is used 18 times. One of those speaks about a wolf snatching a sheep.

"He who is a hired hand, and not a shepherd, who is not the owner of the sheep, sees the wolf coming, and leaves the sheep and flees, and the wolf snatches them and scatters them." (John 10:12 NASB)

Luke 24:51 is a gentler depiction of harpazo, as it shows Jesus returning to the Father gently and slowly. However, the Apostle Paul used the term in 1Thessalonians 4:17 to describe a rapid, almost violent removal of the saints out of harm's way.

Secondly is the focus on "the third heaven." Seeing as we have NO further "witnesses" and NO direct instruction on how to comprehend this, I would not make a big deal out of it or start a new church based upon the phrase. However, if we were so inclined, we could dig into the scriptures and find things that may clarify.

Heaven, as used here, is ouranos. According to Mounce's dictionary, it conveys

• “The visible heavens and all their phenomena,

Matthew 5:18; Matthew 16:1; Matthew 24:29;

• The air, atmosphere, in which the clouds and tempests gather, the birds fly, etc.,

Matthew 6:26; Matthew 16:2-3;

• And, heaven as the peculiar seat and abode of God, of angels, of glorified spirits, etc.,

Matthew 5:34; Matthew 5:45; Matthew 5:48; Matthew 6:1; Matthew 6:9-10; Matthew 12:50; John 3:13; John 3:31; John 6:32; John 6:38; John 6:41-42; John 6:50-51; John 6:58.

In the Old Testament, the word used is sha^mayim or sha^meh and is defined as 1) heaven, heavens, sky; 1a) visible heavens, sky; 1a1) as an abode of the stars; 1a2) as the visible universe, the sky, atmosphere, etc.; 1b) Heaven (as the abode of God)

An example is Genesis 1:8.

"Then God said, "Let there be an expanse in the midst of the waters, and let it separate the waters from the waters." God made the expanse, and separated the waters which were below the expanse from the waters which were above the expanse; and it was so. God called the expanse heaven. And there was evening and there was morning, a second day.” (Genesis 1:6-8 NASB)

Since we effectively don't know where God is, let us assume that He lives somewhere in the expanse of the heavens above the waters of the earth that we call the atmosphere. The UCAR Center for Science Education tells us that "Earth's atmosphere has a series of layers, each with its own specific traits. Moving upward from ground level, these layers are called the troposphere; stratosphere; mesosphere; thermosphere; and exosphere. The exosphere gradually fades away into the realm of interplanetary space.”

Does God need a humanly defined, breathable atmosphere in which to survive? NO, so we could find Him anywhere, but something seems apparent. He chose to put this planet at just the appropriate distance from the Sun so that the plant and human life would be able to live and coexist. We have not done an outstanding job of that, but that is irrelevant because all of creation became severely damaged and corrupted and handed over to our enemy, Satan. There somewhere among the atmospheres, God saw fit to send His Son to become a bloodied sacrifice on our behalf. What kind of person would do that? An unusual and loving one for sure. No matter what "heaven" He lives in, we will be welcomed there, with Him someday soon.

The third thing I wanted to point out from 2 Corinthians 12:4 is the word Paul used, translated as "Paradise." This Greek word paradeisos is a word that the Muslims also use to explain where a martyr goes when he dies in Jihad. When Paul wrote these words, there were no Muslims, so don't lose your mind over it. The word aptly describes the world that Adam walked in and had dominion over before the entrance of sin. Mounce's definitions explain that it is "a park, a forest where wild beasts were kept for hunting; a pleasure-park, a garden of trees of various kinds; used in the LXX for the Garden of Eden; in NT the celestial paradise.”

Examples of the word paradise usage include the brief conversation that Jesus had with the thief on the cross when He said, this day, you will be with me in paradeisos. (Luke 23:43). In Revelation 2:7, Jesus' letter to the church in Ephesus told them, “To him who overcomes, I will grant to eat of the tree of life which is in the Paradise of God.” Paradise = paradeisos. I can't begin to tell you the impaired things I have heard, as “learned” people have tried to explain where Paul went.

Paradise is where The Apostle Paul also went. So I must tell you; you would be hard-pressed to get me to leave such a place.

Our old Testament "role models," although skewed, like Samson or slightly less than brave, like Gideon, all seemed to understand that "The LORD God planted a garden.” A place “of abundant trees, water, fruits, and vegetables-where conditions for life are maximized.” (Word Study Dictionary) And this garden conveys Heaven for them, and they put their hopes in the God that did this, just as He has asked us to do.

Hebrews 11 speaks to this very hope.

• "having confessed that they were strangers and exiles on the earth.”

They understood that this earth, in its present state, is transitory, intermediate, and NOT permanent. And they also knew that this was NOT their home; heaven is.

The psalmist, most likely King David, said this.

"Hear my prayer, O LORD, and give ear to my cry; Do not be silent at my tears; For I am a stranger with You, A sojourner like all my fathers. (Psalms 39:12 NASB)

Again we hear from King David.

"For we are sojourners before You, and tenants, as all our fathers were; our days on the earth are like a shadow, and there is no hope. (1 Chronicles 29:15 NASB)

• “For those who say such things make it clear that they are seeking a country of their own.”

There is no doubt that many longed for this heavenly country; what is not clear is how this got explained to them. It seems that God demonstrated this idea of sojourning by having them live it out; this is why we see Abraham, Moses, and Jacob speak of the temporary nature of their journeys. They were always looking for their permanent home, and none of them spoke of an intermediate destination.

• “they desire a better country, that is, a heavenly one. Therefore God is not ashamed to be called their God; for He has prepared a city for them."

That better country is the heavenly one. And what a shock, as the millennial kingdom also has the Holy City sitting in its middle. That sort of says that heaven begins with the millennial kingdom.

One last thought.

Just a few days, as I was writing and trying to work this out in my head, it occurred to me that we would be caught up in the rapture and spend seven years with Jesus – doing what? If, as I have come to realize, that heaven is paradeisos or Paradise, the most spectacular garden you have ever experienced, won't it be a bit of let down to have to return to the earth that won't be purged with fire and restored to its original condition for another thousand years? But then it occurs to me that heaven will be excellent as long as I am with my Jesus, and I will be.

If I must get stupidly technical, then I suppose that the seven years of mind-blowing beauty, like the thief on the cross was promised, could be deemed a transitional or intermediate place. Again, that would stink if I had to migrate through this earth once again. No one seems to speak about this Holy City made of translucent gold, and considering its size, it will consume the entire Middle East. You could put quite a garden in there, but I digress.

Obviously, God is deeming the entire migration until the great white throne judgment and a few seconds or minutes after that because that small gap in time is where the earth and the "heavens" are burned up and replaced. Ah, once again, my broken thinking comes into play as I try to assign God a specific time frame within which to work. But, considering that He spoke the worlds into existence, who am I to say. And, again, I am reminded that where He is will be heaven.

Now, since this treatise emerged from several painful paragraphs from the book Heaven by Randy Alcorn, let's address this horrid statement - "our future resurrection to life on the New Earth.”

If you are reading this, you are not dead, broken perhaps, but as I addressed in this attempt to understand heaven, death is nothing less than the complete separation from God. There is only one place that happens, and it is at the great white throne. If you read Matthew 25, where we see the sheep and goat judgment, mercy is being demonstrated for some. The Bible clearly defines only two resurrections, the martyred saints at the end of the time of wrath and the dead who are brought before the throne at the end. Never are we Christians treated or seen as dead. And, if you are not dead, you can pull out your sword of the spirit and fight for the kingdom by telling someone, as I did the other day, that God loves you so much.